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Problem with the orientation of my pictures

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robertjoosten
 
Posts: 1

Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:03 pm


Since a few years, I've noticed a problem with the orientation of my pictures. When I use my PC to put the pictures on my PBase gallery, all the pictures (taken with my Iphone) appear horizontal (landscape) even those who are vertical (portrait). Sometimes even rotated by 180°. But when I look at the gallery with my Iphone, the pictures appear with the good orientation. If I rectify the orientation of the pictures by using the "Rotate image" tool of PBase, they appear correctly on my PC, but with the wrong orientation on my Iphone ! Does someone know how to solve this problem ?
For example, you can look at my gallery : https://pbase.com/robertjoosten/val_danniviers_en_t
Than you in advance for your answers !

richo
 
Posts: 218

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:03 pm


robertjoosten wrote:Since a few years, I've noticed a problem with the orientation of my pictures. When I use my PC to put the pictures on my PBase gallery, all the pictures (taken with my Iphone) appear horizontal (landscape) even those who are vertical (portrait). Sometimes even rotated by 180°. But when I look at the gallery with my Iphone, the pictures appear with the good orientation. If I rectify the orientation of the pictures by using the "Rotate image" tool of PBase, they appear correctly on my PC, but with the wrong orientation on my Iphone ! Does someone know how to solve this problem ?
For example, you can look at my gallery : https://pbase.com/robertjoosten/val_danniviers_en_t
Than you in advance for your answers !


Always do image rotation in a well established image editing software program like Photoshop or GIMP. Never trust Windows, iOS or Android OS to do that correctly and be wary of any online photo editing too. Always keep your originals separate and backed up from your editing copies.

dw_thomas
 
Posts: 462

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:02 pm


In addition to richo's wise words, I have used an iPhone 5C, and now a 6S, and I'm not convinced even Apple is 100% sure of its picture orientations. The problem seems to appear most often if I hold the phone in a horizontal plane to photograph something laying on a table. When I take the shot and later look at it from the "Camera Roll" I've had shots absolutely refuse to orient properly to the screen the way they looked when taken.

I have also noted that things sometimes display differently in my Windoze system than on my phone -- almost as if those two environments are using different attributes buried in the JPEGs. I'm at least 90% confident (silly me) that there is likely a defined parameter set for such basic stuff in the JPEG standard. (And my numerous Canon devices appear to get it right.)

richo
 
Posts: 218

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:31 pm


dw_thomas wrote:In addition to richo's wise words, I have used an iPhone 5C, and now a 6S, and I'm not convinced even Apple is 100% sure of its picture orientations. The problem seems to appear most often if I hold the phone in a horizontal plane to photograph something laying on a table. When I take the shot and later look at it from the "Camera Roll" I've had shots absolutely refuse to orient properly to the screen the way they looked when taken.

I have also noted that things sometimes display differently in my Windoze system than on my phone -- almost as if those two environments are using different attributes buried in the JPEGs. I'm at least 90% confident (silly me) that there is likely a defined parameter set for such basic stuff in the JPEG standard. (And my numerous Canon devices appear to get it right.)


You have "hit the target" - The old way to rotate an image was to actually rotate all the bytes which given the program used could end up with a less quality image. The newer way is to add an EXIF parameter that gives the original orientation that the photo was taken. Apparently, some other programs do not read that correctly or the image is subsequently "saved" without EXIF info and the program cannot revert to the old style of rotating an image. That's my best "guess." ;)

hevezimj
 
Posts: 134

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:25 am


Grrrrrr.

I have this problem now with the recent "Vietnam 2019" gallery loaded just yesterday.

First gallery loaded on PBASE in about three years.

I love PBASE because it allowed me to escape stupid hi-tech ...

Oooops ... wrong again.

Sigh ..... Long sigh ....................

PS: loaded and rotated images via android device. Seems. iPad and IPhone do not connect well

slowfreight
 
Posts: 3

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:24 pm


I am having problems with picture orientation as well. When I upload photos from my PC, pBase randomly flips some of them upside down. I rotate and save them. Days later, it starts flipping pictures upside down again and I have to rotate and save again.

Why is pBase changing this in the first place? Why does it change things randomly?

slowfreight
 
Posts: 3

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:33 pm


And here it is, 3 hours later, and everything I just flipped right side up has now been flipped upside down. What is wrong with this platform?

akmc_in_au
 
Posts: 914

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:56 am


slowfreight wrote:And here it is, 3 hours later, and everything I just flipped right side up has now been flipped upside down. What is wrong with this platform?


It's not the platform. It's the old saying that "If your photos are rubbish, it's probably because your camera can send an SMS". (Not that I'm suggesting that the content of your photos are rubbish. The encoding of the photos, on the other hand...)

Cameras and tablets are notoriously bad at encoding things properly. They can display the photos the right way up because they decided what that way is at the time that they took it. It doesn't mean that it's set up to display correctly on other devices or in other software.

One of your photos shows that the "program name" for the software that processed your image was G973USQS3CTB6. That's a reference to the firmware on a Galaxy S10 which is one thing suggesting that you didn't pass it through a proper image processor like Affinity Photo, Photoshop, Lightroom or whatever, any or all of which would have encoded it correctly. (The other is that your photo is 4032 pixels by 3024, which is far and away too large to display in original size on most monitors.) Load the images into a proper photo editor, reduce the size to a more appropriate amount, save them to a jpg and load those up...I'd be surprised if they were still the wrong way around.

slowfreight
 
Posts: 3

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:03 am


I do and I don't buy your answer. It makes sense when the photos are first uploaded. But this will be the sixth time I have to flip the photos. There is no earthly reason, based on every other database system I've used, that the database should reset my saved changes if it's not a buggy database.

Why do saved changes not save in pBase?

richo
 
Posts: 218

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:13 pm


slowfreight wrote:I do and I don't buy your answer. It makes sense when the photos are first uploaded. But this will be the sixth time I have to flip the photos. There is no earthly reason, based on every other database system I've used, that the database should reset my saved changes if it's not a buggy database.

Why do saved changes not save in pBase?

As already mentioned, you shouldn't rely on any online storage system or operating system to properly orient your images. You should use a proper photo editing software. I have a Samsung S10 with Lightroom and Photoshop on it. Both apps are free and easy to use.

rob_lego
 
Posts: 86

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Mon May 04, 2020 5:18 pm


richo wrote:
slowfreight wrote:I do and I don't buy your answer. It makes sense when the photos are first uploaded. But this will be the sixth time I have to flip the photos. There is no earthly reason, based on every other database system I've used, that the database should reset my saved changes if it's not a buggy database.

Why do saved changes not save in pBase?

As already mentioned, you shouldn't rely on any online storage system or operating system to properly orient your images. You should use a proper photo editing software. I have a Samsung S10 with Lightroom and Photoshop on it. Both apps are free and easy to use.

I have been a paying user of PBase for 15 years now. Until recently to my full satisfaction. Never before had I experienced any problems with photo orientation. This is really something of the last year. By the way: It only concerns photos in portrait format. Landscape format images always display well. The orientation started to go wrong with photos on my tablet first, but several weeks ago the problem suddenly showed on my desktop too. The original image is well formatted, but the small version of the image in the gallery regularly (not always) goes wrong with portrait-sized images. I don't use any Apple or Windows photo editing program, but upload my photos from Olympus cameras, type TG-3, TG-5 and more.

Since more recently also with many portrait photos that I uploaded up to 4 years ago, the small version of the photo in the gallery is suddenly a mess: portrait format 'displayed' in landscape format. This is not right. I did not change anything to these photos.

I do not think it is realistic to ask the users to solve this issue themselves. The problem was never there. It suddenly appeared, where the small image of random photos is mutilated in galleries up to 4 years ago.

I think PBase support should take a dive into this seriously and come up with a workable simple solution, preferably completely transparent and in such a way that the user is not bothered with all of this. We just want to upload and share our beautiful pictures for everyone else to see. We don't want to be bothered with technical issues that all of a sudden appear in our galleries.

dw_thomas
 
Posts: 462

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Mon May 04, 2020 8:06 pm


I think PBase support should take a dive into this seriously and come up with a workable simple solution, preferably completely transparent and in such a way that the user is not bothered with all of this.

OK --- First --- obvious question: have you contacted PBase Support about these problems? This is a user forum where we mere customers try to help out when we can, but there is no guarantee anyone from PBase is monitoring the threads here. Admittedly there is evidence of some absentee landlord problems with the site, but for sure they won't fix what they don't know about.

As I mentioned upthread sometime back, this whole business of orientation seems to be fairly squirrelly. Sometimes my iPhone seems unable to display its own orientation correctly. In my workflow, I normally copy the image files from my phone, or any of my assortment of cameras, onto my desktop machine. Most of my cameras I shoot in "raw" mode, so they need JPEG conversion anyway. In an editor (Photoshop Elements) I do some occasional tweaking and downsize a copy to a reasonable image -- such as 800 pixels max. I maintain a local directory hierarchy of the downsized files to match and back up my PBase galleries. I then upload the tweaked and resized files from the desktop and so far so good. Of course, it is the Internet -- mayhaps at some point something here was screwed up and since fudged back. And I have on a very few occasions successfully uploaded a full rez file so a viewer could amaze themselves (the latest toy here is 24 Mpixels).

I don't doubt PBase could do a better job than they do, but one would expect there is a JPEG standard they are/were working to and since many software and hardware companies seem to amuse themselves by "stretching" standards for reasons known only to them, I'm not sure it's realistic to expect a hosting site to automagically accommodate every weird twist and turn of the lastest gee-whiz product. Maybe what's needed is an image file scanner something like the scanners for HTML code that could rummage through a JPEG and report the internal size and orientation and flag any questionable or non-standard header data.

Anyway, I agree with richo about using a "real" editor and not relying on the phone.

DaveT

rob_lego
 
Posts: 86

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Mon May 04, 2020 9:30 pm


dw_thomas wrote:
I think PBase support should take a dive into this seriously and come up with a workable simple solution, preferably completely transparent and in such a way that the user is not bothered with all of this.

OK --- First --- obvious question: have you contacted PBase Support about these problems? This is a user forum where we mere customers try to help out when we can, but there is no guarantee anyone from PBase is monitoring the threads here. Admittedly there is evidence of some absentee landlord problems with the site, but for sure they won't fix what they don't know about.

As I mentioned upthread sometime back, this whole business of orientation seems to be fairly squirrelly. Sometimes my iPhone seems unable to display its own orientation correctly. In my workflow, I normally copy the image files from my phone, or any of my assortment of cameras, onto my desktop machine. Most of my cameras I shoot in "raw" mode, so they need JPEG conversion anyway. In an editor (Photoshop Elements) I do some occasional tweaking and downsize a copy to a reasonable image -- such as 800 pixels max. I maintain a local directory hierarchy of the downsized files to match and back up my PBase galleries. I then upload the tweaked and resized files from the desktop and so far so good. Of course, it is the Internet -- mayhaps at some point something here was screwed up and since fudged back. And I have on a very few occasions successfully uploaded a full rez file so a viewer could amaze themselves (the latest toy here is 24 Mpixels).

I don't doubt PBase could do a better job than they do, but one would expect there is a JPEG standard they are/were working to and since many software and hardware companies seem to amuse themselves by "stretching" standards for reasons known only to them, I'm not sure it's realistic to expect a hosting site to automagically accommodate every weird twist and turn of the lastest gee-whiz product. Maybe what's needed is an image file scanner something like the scanners for HTML code that could rummage through a JPEG and report the internal size and orientation and flag any questionable or non-standard header data.

Anyway, I agree with richo about using a "real" editor and not relying on the phone.

DaveT


Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, Dave.

Point is: I very rarely upload photo's from my iPhone. I nearly always use genuine digital camera's (of Olympus). These images get corrupted too. But only the thumbnails of the portrait oriented images in the galleries, not the original ones. What has that got to do with using 'wrong' photo editors?

dw_thomas
 
Posts: 462

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Tue May 05, 2020 12:59 am


Point is: I very rarely upload photo's from my iPhone. I nearly always use genuine digital camera's (of Olympus). These images get corrupted too. But only the thumbnails of the portrait oriented images in the galleries, not the original ones. What has that got to do with using 'wrong' photo editors?


I suspect the thumbnails are created and stored at the time the images are uploaded, so perhaps a problem lies in that process. So I am curious -- in these portrait oriented images that exhibit the problem, do the intermediate sizes 'small, 'medium', and 'large' also appear rotated when the thumbnail is wrong? (There may not be a separate link for 'large' unless the original is larger than a certain size.) That could offer a hint whether the problem is with the initial upload or in-line processing as the gallery displays are built.

As to right vs wrong editors, it is difficult to do more than speculate, but it could be some custom/manufacturer-specific fields might deviate from the JPEG standard and confuse the parsing of the header data. I'm afraid I do not know much about the internal structure of JPEG files. I would expect an actual data corruption (e.g.; "hardware error" or missing bytes) in the file upload process would produce some sort of error message with no image visible, but perhaps I'm guilty of unwarranted optimism.

I admit I haven't been using PBase as heavily the past year or two because of other activities taking up my time, but I have uploaded probably 200 or more files in the past 12 months and have not encountered the problem you describe. (Which of course does not mean it isn't happening.)

So in any event, if you haven't done so, you should try and communicate the problem directly to PBase staff, though I am aware that is not as certain a process as it should be.

There was a major change in the PBase back end image server setup in February last year that vastly improved performance but had a few things broken for a while, however I'm under the impression all that has been fixed.

Anyway, if you have access to a photo editor you might pass some of the problematic files through that and upload them to a temporary gallery and see if it works better. I don't think I would recommend running out and buying an editor if you have been getting by without one, but I myself feel much better having a generic process to handle my pictures.

Anyway, good luck with it -- there must be an answer.
DaveT

hanswortel
 
Posts: 7

Re: Problem with the orientation of my pictures

Post Tue May 05, 2020 2:35 pm


I only see this problem in Chrome ( on my desktop and telephone). In other browser this looks fine (Internet Explorer, firefox and samsung browser on phone). Some problem with stylesheets in Chrome ?

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