Board index Photography Artistic Questions Constructive Criticism - On pBase?

Artistic Questions

Constructive Criticism - On pBase?

Discuss style and artistic aspects of photography
brickfielder
 
Posts: 18


Post Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:17 pm


A critical part of both painting and photography is composition and its a technique that to some extent can be transferred from one medium to the other. Similarly an eye for tonal or colour contrasts which are pleasing to the eye is somthing which is common to both.
Where photography and even different types of painting differ is in how to capture or present your composition. With water colour you add enough paint to tell the story whilst limiting you paint so that a sense of light shows in your work. With a pencil you concentrate on tones and detail whilst with oil you tend more towards colour and texture.With photography I try to concentrate the eye on something specific or draw the eye into the picture this may mean removing detail by changing the composition or blurring the background or any one of a number of techniques special to photography. Control of depth of field, distortion using a wide or long lens mean that photographs can tell a very different tale to what we see with our eyes and understanding this is part of the art of photography.

atkelley
 
Posts: 25


Post Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:58 am


I haven't read everyone elses answers to this question yet but I thought I'd share my thoughts.
I know that there people that do not take CC well. As for myself I beg for it. I can only better myself and my skills through feedback I receive from others. I do not think I will ever be to a point that I can not improve. In life there is always room for improvement or changes and things to try. If someone takes the time to tell me the things they notice about my pictures and even better if they are able to help guide me in the direction to correct these "flaws" then I more than appreicate it.

What I don't like are people that are just flat out mean and looking to put someone down in order to feel better about there self. Also I don't like getting feedback from someone that has no idea what they are talking about they just think they know everything. For anymore that has ever experienced this I am sure they know what I am talking about.

brianpowell
 
Posts: 1


Post Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:56 pm


I'm 21 years old and I've been shooting for less than a year and a half. I would really love some help. I'm not easily offended and I know I could use some pointers so please send me some CC!

olybob
 
Posts: 8

Re: Constructive Criticism - On pBase?

Post Wed May 28, 2008 4:36 am


I recently saw an amazing gallery here on PBASE with absolutely phenomenal images, except for one thing...a number of the photos had crooked horizons. I left feedback on gallery regarding the exceptional photos, and also made a comment on the horizons. I sort of felt bad afterwards because I offered a critique rather than just a compliment.

When I first starting posting photographs here about six years ago, I really learned a lot from experienced photographers (which I was not at that point). One of the things that I seemed to do on a consistent basis was post photos with crooked horizons. It wasn't until enough people commented on it, that I finally learned. If it wasn't for that constructive criticism, I would probably still be posting shots with slanted horizons.

Unfortunately, I think that people (including myself) are afraid to leave any type of useful criticism on PBASE. You just don't see it here anymore. I wish it was more common, because I still enjoy learning from the useful critiques of other photographers.

Bob

http://www.pbase.com/olybob

djwixx
 
Posts: 1360

Re: Constructive Criticism - On pBase?

Post Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:28 pm


This has been an interesting discussion, but I wonder if there's a great deal of assumption of the level of most Pbasers? I would suggest Pbase probably has 10% of it's members that call themselves photographers, but there's probably only 10% of that that anyone else would call photographers, amatuer or otherwise. In my opionion there are a lot of people who consider themselves qualified and hence get offended by anything that suggests otherwise.

I think there's a lot of people on Pbase trying to learn so I think the 'polite' comments serve as good encouragement on the way, if only to keep shooting. At some point the penny will drop because of the continuous encouragement, at which point the encouragement then loses it's appeal and stops serving the benefit. There's a multitude of people at different levels which requires different levels and forms of encouragement, but how do you judge that level with each person?

I had a harsh anonymous critic, but I can honestly say I learnt more from their harshness and honesty than from the multitude of 'polite' comments. This however has lead me to question what I'm doing and hence blocking me actually doing it, so has it been useful so I only look for shots worth taking, or simple lead me to be more honest about my capability, and hence not taking the shot? I took their critique too personally, but I hasten to add that they were technically wrong on occasions and less than pleasant in the critique they offered. If they'd actually shown themselves so I could look at their work to get an understanding I would have appreciated it more, but they obviously didn't have the courage of their convictions, hence to me their input was almost pointless.

Ultimately each 'photographer' needs to learn some honesty about the quality of their own work, and if at the end of the day they simply enjoy their own results, then that's just as valid as 'the ultimate shot' that everyone else enjoys.

Like others, over time, I have become frustrated with the Pbase mechanism and what seemingly floats to the top of the pile, but at the end of the day, the Pbase mechanism is simply about what you put in. If your concentration is vote and comment trading then your results will simply be good comments and votes. If your concentration is taking pictures then you'll have good pictures to look back on. I suspect many know where they fall and accept the results of the efforts in whatever area they are proficient in.

I wonder, as with the PAD meta gallery, whether there should be other similar galleries, i.e. a show and tell meta gallery, a comments and critique meta gallery etc..................

I hasten to add, that the above viewpoint is from someone who considers themselves unqualified!

jypsee
 
Posts: 1247

Dave, well written

Post Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:30 pm


I gave up reading this discussion when it became a dialog between two members and stopped being interesting. Your well thought out and well written response was refreshing to read.
As for the topic at hand, "constructive criticism," why not change the words to "constructive encouragement?" I've taught people to photograph for a very long time and my approach was always to teach the technique necessary to operate the camera and achieve a "correct" exposure and then to work on composition as we went along. A whole lot of what has "traditionally" gone into producing a finished print happened in the darkroom, when we used the easel to crop, or we would dodge or burn or adjust sharpness, contrast, and so forth. This notion (a phenomenon of the digital process) that all photographs spring from a single stroke as fully formed has lead, I think, to the misapprehension of what makes a photograph worthwhile to look at. This includes the idea that appealing to a novice audience is selling out one's "eye." Conversely, accepting another photographer's feedback is not going to cause your photo to be any less YOUR photo. For those who have the inclination to have feedback given, rock on! For those who prefer their own version of reality.....well, solipsism surely becomes a rut after a while.

sean_mcr
 
Posts: 493

Re: Constructive Criticism - On pBase?

Post Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:44 pm


Jypsee,

As you know, a photograph is just a version of reality and it’s simply a matter of whose version of reality you choose to believe. People learn in different ways and each person must find their own path. I have my own and it doesn’t involve wood be net critics. Critiquing is an art in itself; owning a camera does not a critic make. That is not to say that there is nothing to be learnt here, there is. But there is much to ignore

Those who ask for honest critique above all else should not lose sight of a more important question. Is that "honesty" born out of knowledge or ignorance? another might be, Is the advice driven by benevolence or ego?. Giving or seeking net "Feed back" is all too often ego in the guise of sharing or seeking "knowledge”. I am not implying that you are of that Ilk, but they are legion on the net.


Robert Adams essay ‘civilizing criticism’ could well be the greatest essay ever written on the subject. It opened my mind and my heart and after reading it again this afternoon, I’d respectfully suggest that it is those that put too much stock in or have a burning desire for net critique and votes that are in danger of ending up in a rut.


To be free of such things is quite liberating

Thanks


Sean
What uses having a great depth of field, if there is not an adequate depth of feeling? -

W. Eugene Smith

jypsee
 
Posts: 1247

Sean, that's jypsee (lower case J)

Post Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:32 pm


and, yes, there's much to be said on what constitutes attention getting behavior; and, no, a photograph is not "just" a version of reality. It's a photograph.

sean_mcr
 
Posts: 493

Re: Constructive Criticism - On pBase?

Post Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:04 pm


jypsee

I was paraphrasing John Szarkowski When he said... "A picture is after all only a picture, a concrete kind of fiction, ..."

I think together we've just said the very same.

I feel that I may have ruffled your feathers, slightly. My sincere apologies if that's the case.

I thought your post on Jill Freedman was very thoughtful, and I'm sorry that I didn't reply to it as I have a lot of affection for her work. There's a new Helen Levitt book out, which is a rare thing. I'm sure you'd love it; it's a beautiful book

Rock on


Sean
What uses having a great depth of field, if there is not an adequate depth of feeling? -

W. Eugene Smith

jypsee
 
Posts: 1247

Szarkowski...a genius

Post Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:10 pm


no, Sean, you haven't "ruffled" anything; I just have difficulty with the notion of photography and the construction of a photo being confused with reality. The photo is a real thing; the construction (construing the photo) is where the "real" gets interpreted. In the case of asking for or offering critique, the parties are construing/constructing what they THINK is real, not making the photo any more or less a photo. That's all.
As for Szarkowski, I knew him in a very offhand way. He was an interesting and enigmatic critic/encourager. We met over the years at various venues and only at the last did I have sense enough to take a camera with me.
http://www.pbase.com/jypsee/szarkowski" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Szarkowski is responsible for the best modern photography; his favorite, Lee Friedlander, is my personal "guide."

Mary in Fort Myers, FL, USA

sean_mcr
 
Posts: 493

Re: Constructive Criticism - On pBase?

Post Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:46 pm


Thanks for the reply, jypsee

I do believe that a photograph is a concrete kind of fiction, what it describes is not the thing itself. That's what I meant by a version of reality, but by no means the real thing

The first time that I ever saw a photograph by Lee Friedlander was in a book that has shaped many of of my beliefs, Szarkowski's, The Photographers Eye. I've been a fan of both men ever since.

It's said that Szarkowski saved himself a lot of time by focusing on the photographs and photographers that he liked. I think there is something in that; I think there is something in championing good work, like you did for Jill Freedman. Szarkowski drew attention to photographers like Lee Friedlander, William Eggleston & Gary Winogrand. He tended to talk about why photographs worked rather then why they didn't.

Failure in a photograph like failure in life is easy to draw attention to. I'm definitely from the school that believes that focusing on the positive will help bring about real change.

Thanks

Sean
What uses having a great depth of field, if there is not an adequate depth of feeling? -

W. Eugene Smith

Previous

Board index Photography Artistic Questions Constructive Criticism - On pBase?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron