Thumbnail appeal - does it influence you? Should it?

[prideofanglia]

This is a bit similar to the "shots you like but nobody else does", but it's something I've been musing on. I posted this shot yesterday:



and it sunk absolutely without trace (12 hits!) - I actually think it's quite a decent image athough I'm happy for anyone to tell me it isn't, as long as they say why, but it has absolutely no "thumbnail appeal" at all - from the thumbnail it just looks like sludge and you can't tell what it is etc.

By way of counter example, this image has bags of obviousl "thumbnail appeal" but doesn't necessarily say very much



So the question - do you find yourself consciously or subconsciously posting shots with thumbnail appeal (simple compositions, bright colours etc) so they'll get more attention? Does it influence what you shoot and why? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I've just been looking at the amazing work of Stephen Shore, but if you saw a lot of his pics as thumbnails I'm not sure they'd work - you need to "stare into" the images to read them.

Also why not post a shot you like but you think has been ignored because it lacks thumbnail appeal - we might all discover some hidden gems!

Cheers, Steve

[bassrock]

I agree, sometime I post pictures I think are quite good (ah, the arrogance!) only to find they get few hits. I think sometimes I need more naked women to boost the hit rate

I did make a gallery of Unloved Pictures of images with the fewest hits and that proved quite popular afterwards!

http://www.pbase.com/millerlau/unloved

This is one of my unloved!

[clickaway]

I tend to take darkish pictures, and they look even darker in the thumbnails, showing no detail, and I try that not to put me off.

I find your train picture to lack a focal spot, and with too much clutter. Just my opinion.

[prideofanglia]

I find your train picture to lack a focal spot, and with too much clutter. Just my opinion.

LOL - thanks Ray! On reflection (!) I'm not sure I disagree with you I have to say, so maybe it is just a bad picture. Ok, here's another recent example:



I think this is one of the best shots I've ever posted (IMHO obviously), yet in its first 12 hours or so it only got a handful of views - it then picked up as it was seen and voted by more people, but I can only assume it again lacked that "pop" that makes a thumb stand out in the metagallery. It's the kind of image you need to see full size to make complete sense of I think.

Where I'm going with all this is that I wonder if sometimes the nature of sites like this one makes us ignore the subtle and complex (in subject matter, composition and tonality) in favour of the more obvious, bold, brash and simple images. If it does it's a shame (again IMHO!)

[brandyplusbcs]

These pictures had unappealing thumbnails and got very few hits. I like the spiderweb and I kind of like the dark pictures. There are so many images to look at though, so it's only natural to look at those that catch your eye. Sometimes, if I'm not sure what the thumbnail is showing, I'll click out of curiosity.

http://www.pbase.com/brandyplusbcs/image/66637104/original

http://www.pbase.com/brandyplusbcs/image/66530043/original

http://www.pbase.com/brandyplusbcs/image/66656792/original

[camera0bug]

Sometimes it's extremely difficult to guage how a photo will look
once it's been reduced to thumbnail size.

Unless an image has strong colors or is unusual or eye-catching,
there's always the chance it could get lost in the mix.

I look for anything that catches my eye or just plain appeals to me
no matter what the subject matter.


http://www.pbase.com/camera0bug/image/43218666

[jypsee]

By way of counter example, this image has bags of obviousl "thumbnail appeal" but doesn't necessarily say very much



Cheers, Steve

The human brain likes high contrast and LOVES the rule of thirds (comp places subject at 1/3 the way up or down and right or left in the frame). So, your photo of bright yellow and black shoes is compelling in both ways. It says a whole lot to the viewer in a direct way which attracts the eye.

In addition to whether or not the thumbnail is compelling there's also the "network" factor. By that I mean, are you hooked in, on someone's favorites list, in the clicque, etc. Do you comment extensively and shout "V" on every other clicque member's photo? Those conditions will also affect the way your thumbnail is received/viewed.

Here's two thumbs, one that follows the notion of high contrast and one that doesn't.... the lower contrast photo has more views/hits.... the high contrast one was posted on a Saturday,but I rarely comment on anyone's photos and never shout "V"... so ... go figure


http://www.pbase.com/jypsee/image/66913759


http://www.pbase.com/jypsee/image/66964822

[halesr]

Okay, I think the thumbnail of this image is not very appealing.



But for whatever reason it did quite well. Here is a link to the real image.

http://www.pbase.com/halesr/image/66458381/

I click on thumbnails that grab me. But, sometimes I click on the ones I don't actually get in the thumbnail and I am pleasantly surprised. I like dark and moody images and I think I would miss a lot of ones I like if I did not try thumbs that at first glance that are eye catching.

I love words in images. So, if you really want to get me, just throw in a few words and I most likely will click and see what the words have to say. We all have personal preferences, but there are so many people at pbase that there is room for lots of different genre.--Rene

[djwixx]

I generally find you get more hits the later in the evening you post or early in the morning (US). The thumbnail impression obviously attracts people, but how else do you do it? My view tends to be that if I've had limited hits, comments, or votes then it simply itsn't an interesting picture to other people. Invariably most pictures we take are what appealed to us and is relevant to us, so it may flop for other people, because they're not looking at it with the same eyes. I have found posting comments generates feedback, so I've found I enjoy looking at other peoples pictures, but don't always comment (mostly through lack of time), but it gives me a better sense of my pictures appeal rather than a response in kind to a comment I've made.

All in all the PAD experience is a great learning tool, even if it just encourages you to practice and experiment every day, whether creating a picture you like or a thumbnail impression others like.

[merriwolf]

This is a bit similar to the "shots you like but nobody else does", but it's something I've been musing on. I posted this shot yesterday:



and it sunk absolutely without trace (12 hits!) - I actually think it's quite a decent image athough I'm happy for anyone to tell me it isn't, as long as they say why

In looking through your galleries, Steve, you are obviously a very talented photographer, so rather than me tell you what I think of this shot, I'm really curious as to what there is about it that you like.

But to give my opinion on the subject of the thread, of course thumbnail appeal influences me when I'm looking through pBase. It is what the site presents as a first view and is what the site is centered around. I look at thousands of images here each day and if there isn't something about a thumbnail that compels me to want a closer look, there is no shortage of thumbnails that do compel me. Just the way it is.

Kind of like reading the descriptive blurb on the back of a paperback. If what it says there doesn't grab me and catch my interest, there's no way I'm going to buy it, or even check it out of a library, let alone read it cover to cover.

Should it be that way? How could it be otherwise? Who's got the time to waste on things that don't catch their interest?

My own personal belief is that if a photo doesn't look good small, it's not a good photo. There are always exceptions to every statement, but that's my own guideline.

Regards, Gordon

[prideofanglia]

In looking through your galleries, Steve, you are obviously a very talented photographer, so rather than me tell you what I think of this shot, I'm really curious as to what there is about it that you like.

LOL - I've already conceded that maybe it's just a bad picture!! Thanks for the first bit though

Since you ask though, what I quite like about it (no more than that, it's an ok shot, no more) is what Ray calls the clutter and lack of focal point, plus I think the blocks of dark tones top and bottom are quite appealing, and the shapes of the gas holders and the random clouds at the top.

On the broader point, I think you've highlighted precisely the problem (maybe) of sites like this, where we're bombarded by imagery in thumbnail form and only respond to the images that reach out and grab us immediately, so that more subtle shots can fall by the wayside. As you say, it's the same in all areas of life now, from books to music to advertising, where there are thousands of messages jostling for our attention every day, and it tends to be the loudest, brightest, crudest ones, not the "best" that succeed. Politics is the same, to everyone's detrminent I'd argue, so we're reduced to a 20 second soundbite culture and nobody has time to follow arguments through because nobody has the attention span any more. I do tend to agree with you that's probably just the way it is.

I actually think I agree with your rule of thumb, 90% of the time, but I suspect we all miss some great shots every day by zipping through the galleries scanning the images. C'est la vie!

S

[zenotri]

This is an interesting topic. I often wonder what I miss in the PAD galleries. I generally only have time to click on images that I can clearly see are awesome from the thumbnail and the ones that I'm curious about, that are intriguing enough that I have to see what they are.

Your image would probably fall into the second category. I always find it interesting to work out reflections. I think a caption helps too. It adds interest to the image if you state what you are capturing.

This is from a series that I took, something unplanned, that I just glanced up & saw.

http://www.pbase.com/zenotri/image/61278708

It didn't get many hits or comments, until I explained what it was it in the description. Then it became interesting.

[gummyb]

I don't think it's a thumbnail appeal as its the actual picture. For most people first picture says nothing. The second picture makes most people say "why didn't I think of that!". Its very simple and something that you should be able to find everyday, but not alot of people would visualize it beforehand.

[tlucente]

Ok, I'm only three days into this PAD adventure, but already I see the difference. I'm going to discount the clique phenomena, given I'm new and no one knows me. I only have three images to judge on, but I do think they are telling. The first one translates fairly well into thumbnail size given its strong contrast and pattern, but the following two rely far more on subtlety. Today's is a candid of a cowboy, and though I am undoubtebly biased, I think a very good shot. But being low key, it doesn't grab ones attention at that size, and has proven not very popular. Not that I'm complaining, just learning that size indeed matters, and that I need to be very selective in what I post if I expect hits, making sure it translates well iinto thumbnail. That will certainly limit what I post.

Here the cowboy in large for comparison...



_________________

Tim Lucente
My Galleries

[bjramsay]

1. An impression an instructor of mine highlighted: the average picture used to get about 6 secs to catch your attention, if it didn't in that time it would be passed on for the next, his assessment of the current times is that is now down to roughly 2 secs. (I would venture to bet that the PaD posts are less than that). So if you want to get someone to look at a picture that thumb has less than 2 sec of attention time to get someone to spend their time digging deeper.

2. They are your pictures, if you are not trying to please someone else with the shots (ie presenting an assignment for review) then post shots that excite you, just because the general public doesn't see it the way that you do doesn't mean its not great.

Just a thought. -BJ