What is the purpose of PaD projects?

[jaxtion25]

You know if i'm annoying you then you can simply not participate in this thread. im surprised you are an adult.

[birsay]

It's a real shame this thread has deteriorated to the 'standards' (I use the term loosely) of the wider internet - "don't agree with me? Well shove off then..."

How mature.

Your questions have been answered, Jeffery: you have chosen not to like what the others have said, and have not altered your view as a result. Now, that's not engaging in discussion, that's just saying "Here's my opinion, do you agree yes/no?"

In fact, you gave the game away at the start by asking the question "What do you think are the purposes of a PaD project?" and then ending your original post with: "So please, if you have a PaD gallery then make it a PaD gallery". And then your second post starts: "well looks like im ranting in the wrong place then" (sic). Why are you ranting? If you want to rant, why ask for opinions?

Since no amount of friendly discussion and interaction on the forum would have changed your opionion, why bother posting? Why bother eliciting responses and reasoned arguments from the contributors when your mind is already made up? Why bother at all? What a complete waste of time!

"Everything i've said here is my opinion only, it is only suppose to encourage discussion." No it's not, it's intended to get people to agree with you. There HAS been discussion and you have not conceded anything at all...that's not a discussion, there has been no cut and thrust of a proper exchange of views and opinions. There's been no compromise, no acceptance of other people's stances, no nod of the head that other people's views and opinions are valid.

"I feel like i've made my points clear enough, but no one seens to have made any counter arguments to them" (sic). Yes you have made your points, and you have had a wide range of answers, counter-arguments and interpretations of PaD which you have chosen to ignore or dismiss.

All IMHO of course.

I could go on with other examples, but hey! I've got a camera that needs some Saturday loving...

Interesting isn't it, that as Bill (millerlau) points out there ARE no rules for what a PaD is, and that therefore the definition of what a PaD gallery is will be different from one person to the next. If you want to stick to the 'take and post a photo on the day' philosophy then that's fine, but don't dis people who don't follow (for whatever reason) the strictness of PaD which you have chosen to impose on yourself (and self-imposition it most certainly is).

FWIW, apart from its first sentence, I agree with the second paragraph of your original post, but just because other Pbasers don't follow or share my ideas, principles and thought-processes does not mean that their use of the PaD is wrong...it's just different. I think we're all old enough to see the blatant cheats for what they are and ignore them, and to be catholic enough in our view of photography to take an inclusive and liberal view of the others around us...or maybe we're not.

Whatever you do in life Jeffery, take care and enjoy it, it's the only one you'll have.

Doug

[jaxtion25]

It's a real shame this thread has deteriorated to the 'standards' (I use the term loosely) of the wider internet - "don't agree with me? Well shove off then..."

How mature.

Your questions have been answered, Jeffery: you have chosen not to like what the others have said, and have not altered your view as a result. Now, that's not engaging in discussion, that's just saying "Here's my opinion, do you agree yes/no?"

In fact, you gave the game away at the start by asking the question "What do you think are the purposes of a PaD project?" and then ending your original post with: "So please, if you have a PaD gallery then make it a PaD gallery". And then your second post starts: "well looks like im ranting in the wrong place then" (sic). Why are you ranting? If you want to rant, why ask for opinions?

Since no amount of friendly discussion and interaction on the forum would have changed your opionion, why bother posting? Why bother eliciting responses and reasoned arguments from the contributors when your mind is already made up? Why bother at all? What a complete waste of time!

"Everything i've said here is my opinion only, it is only suppose to encourage discussion." No it's not, it's intended to get people to agree with you. There HAS been discussion and you have not conceded anything at all...that's not a discussion, there has been no cut and thrust of a proper exchange of views and opinions. There's been no compromise, no acceptance of other people's stances, no nod of the head that other people's views and opinions are valid.

"I feel like i've made my points clear enough, but no one seens to have made any counter arguments to them" (sic). Yes you have made your points, and you have had a of PaD which you have chosen to ignore or dismiss.

All IMHO of course.

I could go on with other examples, but hey! I've got a camera that needs some Saturday loving...

Interesting isn't it, that as Bill (millerlau) points out there ARE no rules for what a PaD is, and that therefore the definition of what a PaD gallery is will be different from one person to the next. If you want to stick to the 'take and post a photo on the day' philosophy then that's fine, but don't dis people who don't follow (for whatever reason) the strictness of PaD which you have chosen to impose on yourself (and self-imposition it most certainly is).

FWIW, apart from its first sentence, I agree with the second paragraph of your original post, but just because other Pbasers don't follow or share my ideas, principles and thought-processes does not mean that their use of the PaD is wrong...it's just different. I think we're all old enough to see the blatant cheats for what they are and ignore them, and to be catholic enough in our view of photography to take an inclusive and liberal view of the others around us...or maybe we're not.

Whatever you do in life Jeffery, take care and enjoy it, it's the only one you'll have.

Doug

I would love for you to point out these 'wide range of answers, counter-arguments and interpretations' for me. Everything that's said here comes down to two things, 'relax & have fun with photography', and 'PaD is what you want it to be'. First of all, 'relax & have fun' refers to photography not PaD, which is what we are discussing here. PaD is up to individual intepretations? that's a very weak argument since the name is 'Picture a Day' not 'Picture whenever i feel like it'. For photographers these arguments are pretty limited ideas.

You may feel i'm forcing my views on others but that's probably more to do with my writing, it's just direct. A discussion forum is suppose to cultivate arguments and sharing of different ideas but the same ones are being expressed. I guess i want to rant & discuss (what's wrong with doing both?) because i have a passion for photography and i want to learn more about it. There is no exchange of views & opinions because you guys insist on intepretating my posts instead of countering my main points. Every post i've made raised new points and countered the previous post and i'll keep replying to this thread until someone challenges my ideas....or til admin shuts me up.

thanks for pointing out my spelling/grammar mistakes, english is not my first language.

[birsay]

Whether it's a good or bad thing it's just the fact that there are no rules set down for what PaD is or isn't. Therefore people can interpret how they upload to their PaD according to their personal circumstances (I'm ignoring cheats here...). You said in an earlier post: "I'm a student, everyday is pretty much the same for me". You have therefore the advantage over a great many of us; no one of my days is the same, even the weekends, so I upload when I can.

"I guess i want to rant & discuss (what's wrong with doing both?)" - nothing, I asked why if you wanted a discussion to elicit opinions did you rant? A rant is a monologue, a broadcast, one-way traffic. It isn't a discussion, the two are mutually exclusive.

"You may feel i'm forcing my views on others but that's probably more to do with my writing, it's just direct". Yes it is direct, and sometimes directness can p*ss people off if they cannot physically see you. Communications is about reading how people react to what you say and how you say it, and adapting your approach - it's visual, body language is so important to mutual understanding. The problem with the internet is that we hide behind our keyboards and lack that face-to-face ability and so mis-interpretation are much more common. Being direct is all well and good, but one takes the risk of being misunderstood.

"A discussion forum is suppose to cultivate arguments and sharing of different ideas but the same ones are being expressed". Well, maybe that's because the ideas being expressed are the ideas of the majority of people who PaD! I don't know, I'm guessing and only going on what I've seen in this and similar threads over the years but if you don't like these ideas then what are we supposed to do? Maybe these 'same ones' are all there is, I don't know. How many ideas do you think there should be on this subject?

A discussion is about respect for the other viewpoint; I see none of that in your posts. I see nothing which suggests that the opinions voiced by those who have answered you are valid or have a place in this thread. I see no "good point, I see what you mean but how about we look at it this way?" in your posts. In short I see no discussion, no interaction, no respect for the poster. You use the words 'cultivate', 'sharing of views', words which are all about inclusiveness and listening to others, but you cannot do that if you're direct in your communications. Sorry.

"There is no exchange of views & opinions because you guys insist on intepretating my posts instead of countering my main points". Just for the sake of it, and as an academical exercise only, what *would* be a counter argument to your main points? Really, I'd be interested to know...And countering an argument isn't discussing, it's scoring points, IMHO of course.

"PaD is up to individual intepretations? that's a very weak argument since the name is 'Picture a Day' not 'Picture whenever i feel like it'. For photographers these arguments are pretty limited ideas". Well, I think you're being a bit harsh! As I said at the top of this post, there *is* interpretation about PaD because there aren't rules. But I do think most Pbasers who PaD will try to do so in the spirit and harmony of a photo a day (like I said, cheats notwithstanding). Is that weak?

I accept that the term "wide range of answers etc" was an exaggeration - perhaps I should have said, "you've had several Pbasers answer your question with what they think a PaD is which you have chosen to ignore or dismiss", so thanks for picking that up and I concede your challenge.

Maybe we're just a bit too laid back and photography-centred here to be really worried if someone has posted a PaD photo 36 hours too late...or has uploaded a photo which was taken last week.

I think I've said my piece here; I don't want to get drawn into a downward spiral, so I'll close with this - whether you (or anyone else out there) likes it or not, the Pbase PaD is as it is...if you want to change it, good luck to you.

Doug

[jaxtion25]

i would like to thank you Doug for that very sensible post, NOW we have a discussion going!

Whether it's a good or bad thing it's just the fact that there are no rules set down for what PaD is or isn't. Therefore people can interpret how they upload to their PaD according to their personal circumstances (I'm ignoring cheats here...). You said in an earlier post: "I'm a student, everyday is pretty much the same for me". You have therefore the advantage over a great many of us; no one of my days is the same, even the weekends, so I upload when I can.

If your days aren't the same, shouldn't YOU be the one with the advantage? Surely it's more difficult to spot something novel when you drive down the same road, walk down the same path everyday. Again we are not talking about uploads, you are taking on a PaD project for yourself, not others.

"I guess i want to rant & discuss (what's wrong with doing both?)" - nothing, I asked why if you wanted a discussion to elicit opinions did you rant? A rant is a monologue, a broadcast, one-way traffic. It isn't a discussion, the two are mutually exclusive.

Yes they are different but i guess my arguments are written in a bit of a rant fashion...

"You may feel i'm forcing my views on others but that's probably more to do with my writing, it's just direct". Yes it is direct, and sometimes directness can p*ss people off if they cannot physically see you. Communications is about reading how people react to what you say and how you say it, and adapting your approach - it's visual, body language is so important to mutual understanding. The problem with the internet is that we hide behind our keyboards and lack that face-to-face ability and so mis-interpretation are much more common. Being direct is all well and good, but one takes the risk of being misunderstood.

What you described is verbal face-to-face communication, obviously that's not what we are doing here. i'm counting on the fact that being the sensible adults that we are, most of us would be able to move pass that and focus on the message content. Yes it is a risk being misunderstood. The internet being what is it, someone will always disagree with you. It's a risk i'm willing to take.

"A discussion forum is suppose to cultivate arguments and sharing of different ideas but the same ones are being expressed". Well, maybe that's because the ideas being expressed are the ideas of the majority of people who PaD! I don't know, I'm guessing and only going on what I've seen in this and similar threads over the years but if you don't like these ideas then what are we supposed to do? Maybe these 'same ones' are all there is, I don't know. How many ideas do you think there should be on this subject?

Slavery was an idea shared by many people once, but it doesn't make it right. Just as i'm here to learn, i feel like i can contribute to that process for others. It's not the number of ideas, it's the quality.

A discussion is about respect for the other viewpoint; I see none of that in your posts. I see nothing which suggests that the opinions voiced by those who have answered you are valid or have a place in this thread. I see no "good point, I see what you mean but how about we look at it this way?" in your posts. In short I see no discussion, no interaction, no respect for the poster. You use the words 'cultivate', 'sharing of views', words which are all about inclusiveness and listening to others, but you cannot do that if you're direct in your communications. Sorry.

I can make the same argument about the replies i've been getting. I reciprocate etiquettes when i receive them. I'd say i've been more civil than some of the other members participating in this thread, at no point did i result to personal jabs. Like this guy compared to me to a chihuahua and i'm apparently 'full of it', you call that 'respect'? My posts tend to be long so i only leave in the main points to be clear and minimize the chance of being intepreted.

That last sentence bothers the hell out of me. What do you mean you can't share ideas if you are direct in communication? That could be a problem with children & hot headed teenagers who can't read pass someone's tone.

"There is no exchange of views & opinions because you guys insist on intepretating my posts instead of countering my main points". Just for the sake of it, and as an academical exercise only, what *would* be a counter argument to your main points? Really, I'd be interested to know...And countering an argument isn't discussing, it's scoring points, IMHO of course.

What you are doing right now is counter arguing what i said, that's what others haven't done. Counter argument is a dialogue going back & forth, so they are discussions. You can choose to see it as scoring points, whatever works for you.

"PaD is up to individual intepretations? that's a very weak argument since the name is 'Picture a Day' not 'Picture whenever i feel like it'. For photographers these arguments are pretty limited ideas". Well, I think you're being a bit harsh! As I said at the top of this post, there *is* interpretation about PaD because there aren't rules. But I do think most Pbasers who PaD will try to do so in the spirit and harmony of a photo a day (like I said, cheats notwithstanding). Is that weak?

Well we can't speak for majority of PaDers, that's why i asked them to speak for themselves. I will make one more point though. I have a feeling the main purpose behind PaD is force people to move beyond the 'i'll try very hard' attitude and into the absolute 'total commitment' territory. Why bother? because the 'relax & have fun' attitude will only take you so far in photography...in anything really.

I accept that the term "wide range of answers etc" was an exaggeration - perhaps I should have said, "you've had several Pbasers answer your question with what they think a PaD is which you have chosen to ignore or dismiss", so thanks for picking that up and I concede your challenge.

That you have, and i thank you for this exhilarating discussion.

[norm4fun]

It seems there are two thread I have just noticed going on the same subject, mainly by two persons, trying to tell the world what to do.... hahaha! Do what you want and let the others do what they want. For my part, i'm being moved by photos, ANY KIND OF PHOTOS, and those that don't have feelings with photos, I shun. Go and join a sect, and then you will be a copy of everyone else. Let the free spirit live, and produce THEIR ideal image and post it When they feel and WHERE they feel. it is very nagging to get those odd messages pointing out my photos wasn't taken today cause there is no snow in it, no rain in it, no sun in it, etc. Just love the image for what it is, the mood someone was feeling, good or bad, an object someone wondered at, good or bad, a portrait someone was pround of, even if not to your taste. not every one can be the same race, country, religion, connaisseur, language, social level, technically position AS YOU, just learn from them and you will acheive their levels too, don't try to bring them down to your level by all kinds of stupid rules. Everyone has, taste, feelings, ideas, knowledge, contacts, that he wishes to communicate to others. The facts of trying to dictates on those possibilities, just borders on dictatership and just plain nastiness. Appreciate, AND YOU WILL BE APPRECIATED.

PAD:photo a day, to each his day