Is posting an image more than once in PAD unethical ??

[alexphotos]

You know what I wish for
That PBase would make some thing to block the multiple Repetitive addition of the same image to PaD gallery.

I think is unfaire to the other that even if they know how to do multiple addition of the same image. I know how to do it and I am not telling any one and I am not doing it.

Personaly when I find some one that do that I put them on my HATE LIST (wont check is work out ever will take a long time to to check it again)

If you whant HIT'S leaves comments to other post your pictures on forums with the link (Pbase forum or others).

If your work is good and they like it they will come back and check it out.
I might not have 10k hits a day and I really dont care.

In some cases that I thought the image is really good, but went unnoticed, I did it, but it's might happen may be once in a several months and never more than twice for the same image.

In that case I recomand you to put a link for this picture on your next pad's not to spam the PAD.

As there are only a few member (compared to the strength of PBase members) from my timezone, if I upload it only once, it reaches only 13-20 people in a day.... probably people browse only first few PaD pages. That's made me re-post an image for the first time.

Time zone dont really mather if your post offen (not more then once a day in the pad meta gallerie plz) I post usaly arround 11pm to 1pm Central America time and get the same ammount of hit on the same kind of picture. At first I was posting at 2-3 pm and did not get more hits.

If you whant to get notice go and leaves comments and sing guest book so they will come and check out your work

Posting the same pic over and over to gain more hits or comments seems an awful lot like spam to me.

For me it spam that why they go on my hate list.

But if most of the PaD members here say that re-posting an image in PAD gallery is unethical, I would stop that.

IT IS UNETHICAL
and there a reson is called Photo A Day and not Photos A Minute


Well those are my big 2 copper......


PS forget my errors english is not my strongest subject

[djwixx]

Reading the original post and the following up responses to the responses suggests to me whatever you do you want to 'bump' your pictures.

Personally I'd say feel free to do whatever you wish that falls within what you consider reasonable. One thing I would suggest however, is, if you consistently 'bump' your own own images whether through the show and tell forums or through PAD galleries or anywhere, you'll get the reverse of what you hope. There are numerous 'bumpers' and what happens is because of their 'bumping', people get annoyed and deliberately ignore the work no matter how good it is. Initially you may see an increase in hits (or unwanted comments), but it will diminish, certainly within the Pbase community.

However you behave within the Pbase community will impact your standing within the community. Participation and courtesy are what makes this whole thing tick.

[artlessbeauty]

Reading the original post and the following up responses to the responses suggests to me whatever you do you want to 'bump' your pictures.

Personally I'd say feel free to do whatever you wish that falls within what you consider reasonable. One thing I would suggest however, is, if you consistently 'bump' your own own images whether through the show and tell forums or through PAD galleries or anywhere, you'll get the reverse of what you hope. There are numerous 'bumpers' and what happens is because of their 'bumping', people get annoyed and deliberately ignore the work no matter how good it is. Initially you may see an increase in hits (or unwanted comments), but it will diminish, certainly within the Pbase community.

However you behave within the Pbase community will impact your standing within the community. Participation and courtesy are what makes this whole thing tick.

Thanks for your reply.
I completely agree with you and would surely follow your suggestion/advice.

regards,

[artlessbeauty]

Just for clarification, there is an option to display recent galleries with a thumnail when you view that web page.


Ray

Hi Ray,

I checked that option..... but their the gallery thumbnails are shown by the representative image set for that gallery but not the recently uploaded image. And if one does some change in that gallery without adding new photograph to that gallery then also that gallery comes in that page.

So that is not the similar to PaD page.... what I was talking about is a similar page to PaD but without any restriction. Like in Photo.net, if you are a paid member you can post any number of images you want for critic.... no body minds... though there also people comment only on first few photographs in the critic page. Now as the feeds is on, I don't think it would be difficult to make a recent upload photo page for non-PaDers.

regards,

[clickaway]

Now as the feeds is on, I don't think it would be difficult to make a recent upload photo page for non-PaDers.

regards,

I think you need to consider the number of different people who upload on to PBase each day. Even if you made a post an hour ago, you'd have to go over several pages before we saw that photo.

There are loads of people who can afford a good camera now and many are making some good shots, so it is getting much more difficult to getting your work noticed in this way.

Ray

[michaelsv]

In some cases that I thought the image is really good, but went unnoticed, I did it

Oh, now that's a different story. Sometimes those PaD'ers can be so rude when they post their slop and cover yours up without commenting. Can't say I blame you for bringing it to their attention that they're missing out. Maybe slug could make just your pics flash with bright neon borders.

Now I remembered why I quit posting on the forums lol.

I think you've missed the whole point of my post. I did say that I think it's not fair to do this. Now, being an honest person, I do not want to blame others of doing this without admitting that I did that also at some point.

BTW, reading your post I kind of begin understanding what you've meant about rude PBasers.....

Michael.

[sethlazar]

There have been a number of different threads on the various forums about use and abuse of the pbase 'commons'. As always happens whenever a scarce resource is being used by a number of people without any clear enforcement of coordination, there is a lot of resentment going around, some rudeness, and a lot of self-righteousness, as well as a lot of defensiveness. I thought I would try to bring some clarity to the debate. I'll state my vested interest at the end, but for the present just consider the arguments.

I'll state at the outset that I think it self-evident that there should be only one new upload to the PAD gallery a day. However you interpret PAD, whether as literally a photo taken on that day, or just as the photo that you choose to upload that day, it should clearly be one photo. I also think it self-evident, however, that it need not be a photo specifically taken on that day. For people who want to do such a project, that's fine, but a lot of people don't want to, and yet benefit just as much from having a showcase for their new uploads. Personally, I'm into landscape photography at the moment, which means my opportunities for really interesting work come every few months (when i can get out of town). I then edit the photographs, and feed them into my PAD gallery day by day. The only way this could be a problem would be if PADers think that they have a stronger claim to the benefit of a showcase page than other Pbasers, which I'm sure they wouldn't. As far as their having a specific forum in which to share and discuss the PAD project itself, there is obviously the PAD forum.

The main issue, then, is using the bug in pbase to bump one's daily entry up to the front of the gallery. The question is whether this is fair. There are two main arguments against. First, that it's against the rules. Second, that everyone could do it, but constrains themselves, in order to make the PAD gallery more interesting, so if you don't constrain yourself then you're free riding on their efforts: you get the benefit of the PAD gallery being interesting, but you also get the benefit of being at the top of it every few hours. This is a form of the Kantian argument from universalisability. The idea is that you should act so that you could be happy if everyone (universally) were to act in the way you do. If you are acting in a way in which you would not be happy for everyone else to so act, you're taking unfair advantage. If everyone used the bug to bump their images up, then the PAD-gallery would be like the recent uploads gallery, with new entries being knocked back five pages with every refresh.

The first argument is weak: the rules clearly state 'You can have just one gallery selected as a PaD gallery. This prevents abuse of this page.
Otherwise people would set all of their galleries as PaD galleries which would make this page less interesting.
Please play fair and don't try to monopolize this page by uploading a new photo every five minutes.' Someone who bumps a photo up every four or five hours, then, does not break the rules. It's important to remember this when you are inclined towards being more sententious than is absolutely necessary.

The second argument is stronger, but there is a counterargument. It is standard, in cases of free-riding, to say that if nobody is harmed by this free-riding, then what's wrong with it? The fact is that the PAD gallery is still interesting, even though some people are bumping themselves up every so often. Nobody is doing it to an extreme extent, just a few times a day. The benefits to them of doing it are great: particularly for people who are less comfortable with the element of reciprocity involved in the 'I'll look at yours if you look at mine' approach (complaint about which has been another recurrent theme in these forums), it enables them to get a lot of exposure based solely on people's response to their work.

It's important to recognise that this is a reasonable argument. I think it is still wrong, however. There are problems with the reciprocity system, but it is a much more positive way of attracting visitors than merely displaying your work, because a successful photographic community depends as much on us viewing one another's work as it does on us showing our own. So drawing people in by just displaying, rather than visiting, is another form of free-riding. And while nobody is harmed by people bumping up their shots, it is still unfair, and that is reason enough I think not to do it.

The standard solution to tragedies of the commons (this sort of free-riding problem) is mutual coercion, mutually agreed upon. This means using the instruments that are available to us to remove the option of unfair play. I know nothing about web programming, but presumably Pbase could fix the bug and limit postings to this gallery in the required way to make this not an issue. I also think that it should be acknowledged as a showcase gallery, rather than being tied explicitly to the photo-a-day project.

You've probably guessed my vested interest; I have been bumping images up, maybe four times a day, on and off for a few months. I'm going to stop now.

Regards,

Seth

[offtheradar]

In some cases that I thought the image is really good, but went unnoticed, I did it

Oh, now that's a different story. Sometimes those PaD'ers can be so rude when they post their slop and cover yours up without commenting. Can't say I blame you for bringing it to their attention that they're missing out. Maybe slug could make just your pics flash with bright neon borders.

Now I remembered why I quit posting on the forums lol.

I think you've missed the whole point of my post. I did say that I think it's not fair to do this. Now, being an honest person, I do not want to blame others of doing this without admitting that I did that also at some point.

BTW, reading your post I kind of begin understanding what you've meant about rude PBasers.....

Michael.

I didn't miss the point of your post. And I'm glad you see the value of recognizing how rudeness affects the community of the board. Whether it's from me in the forum addressing those who selfishly try to dominate the PaD galleries thru exploits/unethical means, or those who engage in the practice. Wouldn't the world just be a better place if everyone were self-policing rather than in need of yet another "rule" to tell them how to treat others? Do unto others... you wouldn't want someone else bumping your pics down with multiple uploads of the same pic... don't do it to others. Yeah, that's a tough one.

[djwixx]

Given the comments by Seth, it's fair to say that the PAD galleries have become as much a show and tell as a PAD gallery. Something else to bear in mind is that not everyone likes to have a mixed gallery of unrelated images so may still be PADing, but loading pictures to a relevant gallery and setting a different gallery as their PAD gallery.

Personally I think the 'bump' mechanism should be fixed, but with a few adjustments. You should be able to add a picture for display in the PAD galleries every 12 to 18 hours to allow for the variance in many peoples day. You should be able to upload, edit, title etc, then when you are ready have an option that lets you "Show this in the PAD galleries". In addition to this maybe an option to set the time (timezone) you want it to display, at which point your 12-18 hours clock starts.

The Show and Tell forums suffer with similar abuse by certain members.

Unfortunately, albeit a community, there will always be those that break the unwritten rules, hence mechanism should be put in place to limit that abuse.

[clickaway]

Dave,

I think once we get into rules about time gaps between each PAD post, it spells trouble. Just about all of us have to catch up with our PAD gallery at some stage and so sometimes it is quite valid to post several PAD's over a 24 hour period.

I have really given up on the PAD meta-gallery now and largely look at my favourite photographers. Every so often, I will look at others favourites, the populars, and yes, even the meta gallery on occasion to broaden my vista.

Ray

[djwixx]

Dave,

I think once we get into rules about time gaps between each PAD post, it spells trouble. Just about all of us have to catch up with our PAD gallery at some stage and so sometimes it is quite valid to post several PAD's over a 24 hour period.

I have really given up on the PAD meta-gallery now and largely look at my favourite photographers. Every so often, I will look at others favourites, the populars, and yes, even the meta gallery on occasion to broaden my vista.

Ray

I fully agree and understand, but doesn't the fact that you now limit what you look at already show that there's a fault in the system?

[artlessbeauty]

The main issue, then, is using the bug in pbase to bump one's daily entry up to the front of the gallery. The question is whether this is fair. There are two main arguments against. First, that it's against the rules. Second, that everyone could do it, but constrains themselves, in order to make the PAD gallery more interesting, so if you don't constrain yourself then you're free riding on their efforts: you get the benefit of the PAD gallery being interesting, but you also get the benefit of being at the top of it every few hours. This is a form of the Kantian argument from universalisability. The idea is that you should act so that you could be happy if everyone (universally) were to act in the way you do. If you are acting in a way in which you would not be happy for everyone else to so act, you're taking unfair advantage. If everyone used the bug to bump their images up, then the PAD-gallery would be like the recent uploads gallery, with new entries being knocked back five pages with every refresh.

The first argument is weak: the rules clearly state 'You can have just one gallery selected as a PaD gallery. This prevents abuse of this page.
Otherwise people would set all of their galleries as PaD galleries which would make this page less interesting.
Please play fair and don't try to monopolize this page by uploading a new photo every five minutes.' Someone who bumps a photo up every four or five hours, then, does not break the rules. It's important to remember this when you are inclined towards being more sententious than is absolutely necessary.

Seth

I agree with you.... when you say that the rule do not forbid us to post say three times in a day. And the second argument goes like that we should not do something what we don't like others to do. It's also true..... but who knows what the majority like or dislike ??

As my experience goes : few months back I didn't even know about PaD gallery and when I came to know about it I started to post once in a day. Then I saw many people post multiple images a day or re-post same image multiple times (not more than 3-4 times in a day) a day.... I asked them why they do that and how they do that..... I got satisfactory reply from many.... they didn't seem to have that mentality "I only do that, you don't"... or "I don't want you to learn and do that".... they could have just ignored my mail.... but they replied with all explanations.

For me, I don't mind if everybody here post 3-4 times a day in PaD. That would make my image move away from the first few pages 3 times faster.... but again I will have it in the first few pages.... totally three times. So the time span for which my image (and every body else's) will be there in the first few pages is constant. (I am not taking into account those who are lazy enough not to take the pain of re-posting the image again.) But it is more preferable to me if my image is shown in first few pages only for 10 minutes but three times a day rather than once but for 30 minutes. Then any photo will get more exposure to many people from different time zones and people having different convenient time of the day to check PBase.
What if more here go by that logic ??

I don't like the reciprocity theory.... people have commented on your photo- you see their gallery.... there the community becomes a closed one. Rather I like to browse through the PaD gallery and comment/vote on photos that I really appreciate. It does not bother me whether they come back to see my gallery or not.

I hope I have made my point clear.

regards,

[clickaway]

Dave,

I think once we get into rules about time gaps between each PAD post, it spells trouble. Just about all of us have to catch up with our PAD gallery at some stage and so sometimes it is quite valid to post several PAD's over a 24 hour period.

I have really given up on the PAD meta-gallery now and largely look at my favourite photographers. Every so often, I will look at others favourites, the populars, and yes, even the meta gallery on occasion to broaden my vista.

Ray

I fully agree and understand, but doesn't the fact that you now limit what you look at already show that there's a fault in the system?

Not really, I can only spend so much time on the computer looking at PBase! And there will always be plenty of interesting photos that any system will fail to pick up.

Ray

[lindarocks]

Lazy - for not abusing the system? You can't be serious?

[artlessbeauty]

Lazy - for not abusing the system? You can't be serious?

Please read it carefully first. There it has been argued that posting three times a day in PaD does not disobey any rule..... then how come it is abusing the system ??

regards,