Is posting an image more than once in PAD unethical ??

[artlessbeauty]

Hi,

It's more than an year I joined PBase. Earlier I used to wonder how one can post the same image twice in PaD gallery... but later I found out the way. And I have seen many do the same.

Now recently I have received repeated anonymous comment stating not to post an image more than once only for comments.

Now let me say, comments are not the only thing we do photography for. And if the photograph is not a good one people will not comment on it even if it is posted more than once. Number of hits may increase in case of re-posting but people will comment only if they like it. Since we all live in different time zones, re-posting can only increase the probability that more people will see his/her work.... nothing more. And since there is no limit in PAD entries in a day.... one's re-posting will not deprive others.

I do photography as a part of awareness campaign for Nature and Wildlife. I am an active member/contributor of WWF.... I hope, watching of good nature photographs makes one more friendly toward nature and wildlife - and that's very important in today's situation. That's the sole reason I re-upload the same image to my PAD gallery - to display it to more number of people from all over the world. If one likes my photograph, it's not my achievement - rather it's sharing the nature's beauty.

But if most of the PaD members here say that re-posting an image in PAD gallery is unethical, I would stop that.

Please let me know your view on this.

best regards,
Manas.

[offtheradar]

I don't have a PaD gallery, still kicking around the idea of starting one. I found this question kind of interesting, so figured I'd respond.

Again, this is only my opinion, so don't take it the wrong way.

You have some really nice shots, and I too am a fan of the preservation of nature. I subscribe to the "Take only pictures, leave only footprints" approach to the outdoors and applaud your efforts to educate and enlighten others to the beauty of nature we're trashing with our carelessness and indifference.

*However*.... You're using the PaD galleries as a platform for your political ideas rather than what it was originally intended for. Posting the same pic over and over to gain more hits or comments seems an awful lot like spam to me. I think you can achieve the same result (worldwide recognition) by improving your skills as a photographer and keeping the pics unique. Make them want to see the next pic u post, not dread the concept of having to see the same things over and over.

And what if everyone did the same thing you're doing? Yawn.

It's not a debate for me, that's just my opinion. I enjoy flipping thru the galleries from time to time... but that's because I usually don't see the same things twice.

.02

[artlessbeauty]

Thanks for your reply.
In my first post I made it clear that my intention behind re-posting an image in PaD is not to gain comments.... rather to show it to many people. It's not for recognition either. It's just to share something. Anyway people have rights to interpret it in their own ways.

As there are only a few member (compared to the strength of PBase members) from my timezone, if I upload it only once, it reaches only 13-20 people in a day.... probably people browse only first few PaD pages. That's made me re-post an image for the first time.

However, you correct that I am not using the PaD gallery as it was intended for. I shoot only in Saturdays and Sundays but keeps on posting those images throughout the week - that's not a PaD project. In that case I shouldn't even post once to PaD.

Anyway, I am expecting some more replies..... if some more feel in the same way I would not repeat it further.

regards,

*However*.... You're using the PaD galleries as a platform for your political ideas rather than what it was originally intended for. Posting the same pic over and over to gain more hits or comments seems an awful lot like spam to me. I think you can achieve the same result (worldwide recognition) by improving your skills as a photographer and keeping the pics unique. Make them want to see the next pic u post, not dread the concept of having to see the same things over and over.

And what if everyone did the same thing you're doing? Yawn.

It's not a debate for me, that's just my opinion. I enjoy flipping thru the galleries from time to time... but that's because I usually don't see the same things twice.

.02

[bobt54]

Go to the PAD gallery and read the content at the bottom. One of the lines states:

Please play fair and don't try to monopolize this page by uploading a new photo every five minutes.

Recently Pbase released the ability to subscribe to feeds including a PAD feed. One of the unintended consequences of this is that I was able to sort all of the PAD entries in the feed by name and was surprised to learn how many people post to their PAD multiple times a day. Some of them post an hour a part. This is obviously to get exposure to their work.

When you post mulitple time each day you are bumping others off the top few pages prematurely so I would say that multiple postings to the PAD galleries is unfair to others. Some might call it cheating and it is definitely NOT cool! IMHO.

[michaelsv]

And since there is no limit in PAD entries in a day.... one's re-posting will not deprive others.

I think it's really simple. Most people will take a look on the first 5-6 pages at a time. Each page contains 12 images. First page refreshing every 10 minutes or so. So normally one will look at about 60-100 images posted around the time he or she is uploaded their pictures. Then may be one more time for same number of pages. So basically you have a chance for your picture to be noticed only if it's in the first hundred for next 10 minutes. If people reposting same image again and again (increasing total number of images posted in that 10 minutes interval) chances that your image will be seen is decreasing. It's fair game if everyone is posting image just once, but if people posting same image every hour.....

Now, I do not say I never did this. In some cases that I thought the image is really good, but went unnoticed, I did it, but it's might happen may be once in a several months and never more than twice for the same image.

Just IMO.

Michael.

[offtheradar]

In some cases that I thought the image is really good, but went unnoticed, I did it

Oh, now that's a different story. Sometimes those PaD'ers can be so rude when they post their slop and cover yours up without commenting. Can't say I blame you for bringing it to their attention that they're missing out. Maybe slug could make just your pics flash with bright neon borders.

Now I remembered why I quit posting on the forums lol.

[artlessbeauty]

Now to summarize I would like to ask which one is objectionable ??

1. Multiple addition to PaD gallery in a day ?? Lets talk about a practical case, say 4 times a day ??

or

2. Repetitive addition of the same image to PaD gallery ?? Either more than once a day or even once a day ?? Lets take a situation when I re-upload the same image on two consecutive days in my PaD gallery (but once in a day) - is it objectionable ??

regards,
Manas.

[bobt54]

Both are objectionable because, to my knowledge, both do the same thing and that is to occupy the top position in the PAD more than once a day. To be absolutely fair to others, your work, regardless of content or purpose in life should occupy the top spot in the PAD gallery just once every 24 hours.

If you think your work is more important or you think you need more exposure to your work you are telling the rest of us that our work is not as important as yours.

One would think this should be a simple concept. After all doesn't PAD stand for PHOTO A DAY. It is not a PAH or an MPAD. There is no "s" at the end of the word Photo. Once a day, period.

[clickaway]

Since we all live in different time zones, re-posting can only increase the probability that more people will see his/her work.... nothing more.

Indeed, we all live in different time zones and as you live in India there is nothing special about this.

I looked at my own situation and from the photo I posted yesterday I received 12 comments from people in the following countries

Brazil.........1
Singapore...1
USA............5
Israel..........2
Spain..........1
Italy............1
UK..............1

Living in England, you will see that only 3 of my comments have come from the European Time Zones. Seven of them are from time zones with a difference of five hours or more.

So what is so special about your case? There are some very talented photographers living in Asia, and I'm sure they don't play any dirty tricks.

So why do you?

[artlessbeauty]

So what is so special about your case? There are some very talented photographers living in Asia, and I'm sure they don't play any dirty tricks.

So why do you?

I have not told that my case is special. I just tried to say that because of time zone difference a photograph may not be visible in PaD gallery to many. coz people mostly browse only 6-7 pages of the PaD gallery.

And please be a more wise to figure out that many here do the same, upload one image multiple times in PaD and some upload new images but one in every 2 hours or so. If I wanted to play dirty tricks I need not have posed this question whether it is ethical or not. At least Pbase do not have any rule that tells me not to upload same images more than once in Pad.

I have received many (at least 20) PM asking how I re-upload the same image in PaD more than once and that means that they didn't have any objection to it and they wanted to use the same way. Only one person sent me anonymous comment asking to stop that. And soon after that I posted this here.

regards,

[artlessbeauty]

One would think this should be a simple concept. After all doesn't PAD stand for PHOTO A DAY. It is not a PAH or an MPAD. There is no "s" at the end of the work Photo. Once a day, period.

In that case we should request Pbase administrator to make a photo gallery for "Recent Uploads" or similar type (not the recent galleries type, there no photos are displayed). One photo per person will be displayed in that gallery, but there will be no limit and restriction. Many people do not shoot in Photo A Day basis. They shoot when they find interesting objects or go out for a trip etc.... and so sometimes they shoot 50 images in a day and may be no shooting for next five days. So to upload those 50 images they need to wait for 50 days - before that they wont be able to share the full gallery. And if they don't upload in PaD gallery the images almost go unseen and no critics/comments.

I have seen only in PBase that people have so many objections if someone else get more comments or votes. Have not seen this type of attitude in other sites. In Flickr people are happy to add others photos to different hall of fames..... and here before commenting one thinks how many he would receive in return.

I love bird and nature photographs and so comment on many bird photographs (and do not comment at all on those which are not nature photographs, coz I don't do anything except nature photography and so not a good judge of other type of photography). Few days back I got an guest book entry saying that I comment on many photographs just to get back many and that's the secret that my photographs get comments. Now commenting on others images is also seen as a trade of comments. Probably some day I should stop commenting on others photographs and delete all the comments I have received so far.... and delete the link for adding comments to my photographs. That should bring peace to many.

regards,

[clickaway]

One would think this should be a simple concept. After all doesn't PAD stand for PHOTO A DAY. It is not a PAH or an MPAD. There is no "s" at the end of the work Photo. Once a day, period.

In that case we should request Pbase administrator to make a photo gallery for "Recent Uploads" or similar type (not the recent galleries type, there no photos are displayed). One photo per person will be displayed in that gallery, but there will be no limit and restriction. Many people do not shoot in Photo A Day basis. They shoot when they find interesting objects or go out for a trip etc.... and so sometimes they shoot 50 images in a day and may be no shooting for next five days. So to upload those 50 images they need to wait for 50 days - before that they wont be able to share the full gallery. And if they don't upload in PaD gallery the images almost go unseen and no critics/comments.

I have seen only in PBase that people have so many objections if someone else get more comments or votes. Have not seen this type of attitude in other sites. In Flickr people are happy to add others photos to different hall of fames..... and here before commenting one thinks how many he would receive in return.

I love bird and nature photographs and so comment on many bird photographs (and do not comment at all on those which are not nature photographs, coz I don't do anything except nature photography and so not a good judge of other type of photography). Few days back I got an guest book entry saying that I comment on many photographs just to get back many and that's the secret that my photographs get comments. Now commenting on others images is also seen as a trade of comments. Probably some day I should stop commenting on others photographs and delete all the comments I have received so far.... and delete the link for adding comments to my photographs. That should bring peace to many.

regards,

Manas,

Just for clarification, there is an option to display recent galleries with a thumnail when you view that web page.


I think I need to explain that the PAD gallery was introduced following a request to PBase so participants could identify doing the Photo-a-Day project. It was not long before that people started to abuse this gallery by placing photos there whether they were part of that project or not. Many of us take many photos some weekends - if I take 50 on a saturday, one is my picture-a-day gallery and the other 49 go elsewhere and so get restricted exposure.

I am not aware of the multiple uploads to the PAD gallery as there is too much to look at there. Instead, I have an extensive list of favourite photographers which I update over time. Depending on the photo (and my mood) I will make a comment and perhaps a vote. I receive some in return but I don't trade votes or comments - that is mostly done on merit.

I have found commenting a good way to receive recognition and feel this would be a far better way forward if you yearn for a larger audience.

Ray

[offtheradar]

I just tried to say that because of time zone difference a photograph may not be visible in PaD gallery to many

I think people understand your reason, they just don't agree with it. Your argument is: When you post your pic, half the world is asleep... therefore you need to post it again so those not in your timezone will not be cheated out of the opportunity of seeing your photo.

I still call it spamming. What if everyone did what you do so those in other time zones can benefit? I think you're missing the point of a PaD anyway... it's not for everyone else's benefit, but so you can become a better photographer. It's supposed to challenge you to look at the world differently on a daily basis, to look for opportunities you normally might have missed. But you? I get the impression you see your PaD as a gift to the world, and how dare they miss it and not post comments. Obviously, if it didn't get the number of comments you think it should.. people must not have seen it, right? I hope you can see how this might reek as nothing more than pure arrogance, even if it's not.

You seem like a nice enough guy, and I'll credit you with posting the question in the first place. But the fact that you're debating it rather than following through with your initial statment makes it pretty clear you feel there's nothing wrong with it:

if some more feel in the same way I would not repeat it further.

It pretty much works on the honor system, and the vast majority of those involved post once so as to not force others down prematurely. Unfortunately however, for a few individuals the unwritten rules of fair play only apply to everyone else. It reminds me of those self-important idiots who illegally park in the handicapped spaces because they're "in a big hurry", or "will only be a minute" while everybody else searches for a legal spot then has to walk farther across the parking lot.

artlessbeauty, it's the honor system. How you behave is a reflection on who you are as a person. I'm sure you'll act accordingly.

[artlessbeauty]

Manas,

Just for clarification, there is an option to display recent galleries with a thumnail when you view that web page.


I think I need to explain that the PAD gallery was introduced following a request to PBase so participants could identify doing the Photo-a-Day project. It was not long before that people started to abuse this gallery by placing photos there whether they were part of that project or not. Many of us take many photos some weekends - if I take 50 on a Saturday, one is my picture-a-day gallery and the other 49 go elsewhere and so get restricted exposure.

I am not aware of the multiple uploads to the PAD gallery as there is too much to look at there. Instead, I have an extensive list of favourite photographers which I update over time. Depending on the photo (and my mood) I will make a comment and perhaps a vote. I receive some in return but I don't trade votes or comments - that is mostly done on merit.

I have found commenting a good way to receive recognition and feel this would be a far better way forward if you yearn for a larger audience.

Ray

Hello,

Thank you for your reply.
Yeah, there is an option to see the recently updated galleries with thumbnails. I didn't know it.
But then why most people do not look that instead of PaD. If I don't add an image to PaD it almost goes unseen. When I didn't know about PaD, my photographs (though I upload only one photo per day in two days) used to be seen only 12-15 times in the whole day... and only 1-2 comments. It was the hit count that made me discover PaD..... because if at least some people are seeing the photographs then depending on number of comments I can judge the quality of my photograph... and whether I am improving or not. But if those go unnoticed then there is no way I would know that whether people like those photographs or not.

I feel it would be the best for PaDers and as well as for the rest if most people start looking at those recent galleries with thumbnails rather than only PaD. As for example after 14 months of stay in PBase I didn't know about it, it's so less popular. But I used to browse the PaD pages quite regularly. Now most people use PaD like a notice board to display their images and they browse PaD only to see others newly uploaded photos.

Hope things will change.

regards,

[artlessbeauty]

, if it didn't get the number of comments you think it should.. people must not have seen it, right? I hope you can see how this might reek as nothing more than pure arrogance, even if it's not.

There is a hit count in Pbase which says how many times that photo was seen.


I just wanted to know the public consensus..... where there is no hard and fast rules things change with time and then somethings become convention - though it goes against the name. I just wanted to know what is the convention here..... otherwise I know the meaning of the words "Photo a Day".

If one checks carefully how many percentage of those who post in PaD are really use it as per the concept of PaD, I feel he/she would conclude 'PaD' is just the name....
Here also you can see the thread was read more than 250 times, so at least 100 people have read the post...... but how many reacted ?? For others probably 'PaD' is just a name.... or they are not very strict about it. And that's the reason all pbase members, even non PaDers also check only the PaD gallery but not the recent galleries link to see others newly uploaded photos.... they don't take it strictly as PaD... but as a general display board.

regards,