Song Lyric Interpretation -

[echotide]

In January I posted an image of three boats on a frozen harbor and called it "Boat Drinks". I then posted the lyrics to Jimmy Buffets song by the same name. I did credit JB with the lyrics althought it wasn't a "proper" citation. I had a commenter last evening who left his/her name as "guest@guest.com" which of course I knew was false who said that I shouldn't have posted the lyrics that I was stealing and found it ironic that "I" would do this as in my copyright statement I have "use of these images without my permission is stealing... yadda yadda yadda..." and did I ask JB for his permission?

Is it stealing if you post an image to lyrics you post? My take is that this is my interpretation of those song lyrics - pure and simple.

What are your thoughts?

[stuegan]

Some busybodies have a lot of time on their hands!

I'd just ignore it, myself, but I'm not a musician or a lawyer, and so I'm not really in a position to comment as to whether it's right or wrong. I guess in the eyes of the law it'd be wrong if the lyrics are copyright, but really I'd imagine most musicians would be more concerned with illegal file sharing than reproduction of lyrics. I dunno. One way around it though is simply linking to the relevant page of a lyrics website or something like that. I'd probably click a link if I came across it and liked the photo.

I think there's an interesting subject related to it though. I've seen quite a lot of lyrics reprinted on PBase with photos somehow interpreting the song or certain aspects of the lyrics, or the mood etc. etc., and coincidentally was actually even considering doing something similar today for my PAD (it was gonna be Leonard Cohen's "Hey, That's No Way To Say Goodbye" and my PAD would have taken a plummet into sad, murky waters for 24 hours or so ). I've decided not to though, so there will no doubt be a far less interesting photo of a bin, or something.

Anyway. The reason for not doing it, and I think this is a far more important thing to consider than copyright issues - but that's just my personal opinion obv - is out of a more general respect to the writer of the song/the song itself. I guess it doesn't apply to all songs, but with a song like that Leonard Cohen one, the lyrics are so damn amazing it's almost an insult in my eyes to take a certain man's words about a certain girl at a certain time and try and apply it to me by way of photography, however apt it may seem today. It just seems really presumptuous. Then again, and here's where my thinking is all cloudy, it's a great thing to empathise with lyrics or feel they're somehow relevant to your life. It's one reason why Song A appeals over Song B. And if a song spurs you on to do something creative, then obviously that's a good thing.

But still, sometimes when I see it done I end up thinking 'gah...that's just in no way relevant to the song itself', which can be a bit annoying if you love the song!

I've actually only ever felt comfortable enough to do this once, as far as I can remember (http://www.pbase.com/stuegan/two_hundred_words), and it was basically because the gallery title referenced the song, which is about the same subject and contained a couple of lines that seemed close to the bone. But I felt at the time like it would be too much to post the lyrics themselves right next to the photos. Looking at it now I wonder whether it's worth linking to them...ie does it improve the gallery in any way? Probably not. I'm not saying mine are, but if a photo is strong should it really need someone else's lyrics to help carry the message?

LOL Oh bloody hell I'm not sure whether I agree with it or not now ha ha. Anyone have any opinions on this?

[creativewisegal]

Not an attorney either, but my initial thoughts are "good grief, you've got to be kidding." Does someone seriously think that writing down the words to a song and citing the artist is a copyright infringement? If so, we're all in trouble in one way or another!

I know folks who have included Scripture on their sites, did they violate the Apostle Paul's copyright? A few years ago, I made a calendar with a Jimmy Buffet lyric on it... but I credited him and GAVE them away (didn't make any money off it.)

You did not claim to write the song. You are not charging admission to view the page. You are not recording the song.

Again, not an attorney, but I think I'd ignore it if I were you.

[jude_53]

I use song lyrics quite a bit and always credit the author/singer/band. I like interpreting the lyrics, but the music itself has a great deal to do with what image I post with it. Sometimes the words alone might not seem to go with that image to others, but the what I hear and imagine bring it into play.
I've done photos then realized that certain lyrics go with them, but I've also shot images for songs I've heard - listening to the song over and over solidifies what I want to create.

On this note, how "wrong" would it be to add the actual music to a photo on pbase? I've been trying to figure out how to put certain songs with photos - because hearing the music while looking at the photo is a step I'd like to take.

Your "guest" is a person with little to do and their concern has nothing to do with any songwriter's copyright issues.

[echotide]

Excellent replies - and I thank everyone for giving their opinion -

[rileypm]

I think my question would be, how does the guest poster know that you do or do not have permission to do anything? Quite an assumption on his/her part.

[countryliving]

from the US Copyright Office (hope I'm not infringing copyrights by posting this LOL)
"The copyright law of the United States provides for copyright protection in “musical works, including any accompanying words,â€

[jolka]

Ufff, good to know I'm not violating any law with my gallery "Roses' Secret Life" http://www.pbase.com/jolka/roses_secret_life, sometimes was wondering about this as well. Anyway it's a nice personal challenge for me to match the rose and the song I like.

[countryliving]

Of course, remember that is from US law, your laws may vary, and of course I am not a lawyer so don't hold me accountable if you go behind bars LOL....anyways, much more on it on the US Copyright Law page

[camera0bug]

I've been putting together music and lyrics in a gallery for a few months
and have included photos of some of the musicians I've photographed
over the years (above their own lyrics) or just with images I felt lent something to the mood of the written piece or my state of mind at the time.

No musician/lyricist/music entity/etc. is going to bother with trying to haul
my ass to court to extract damages or ask me to cease and desist, since I'm not profiting from their works and I'm not presenting their lyrics as my own but giving the author full credit on the page.

If they were really concerned, they'd probably ask for a cut of the profits from sales of their concert images that I take and post.
I think they have better things to do (and more songs to write) than try to go after small fish in a big ocean.

Post away and let the talentless complainers rant on...

Note to the lawyers:
My music lyrics and photography are here:
http://www.pbase.com/camera0bug/musical_visions

[johnireland]

I have a gallery where I HONOR my favorite musical artists with my photo and poetry that they inpsire... I would pay no attention to the "Guest" who I say is clueless in criticizing you. I have also come across other Pbasers also sharing photos paying tribute to a diversity of artisits who inspire them... Just my thoughts and hope you keep doing your thang, john :):)

http://www.pbase.com/johnireland/belt_o ... ique_tunes


DREAM~~~DARE~~DIVE!!! :):)

[deborah_lewis]

So Dan, does this mean that if I do a whole gallery on "Rod" he will come after me?????? Yippeeeeeee, yeah I know only in my dreams LOL

[wakenphotography]

So Dan, does this mean that if I do a whole gallery on "Rod" he will come after me?????? Yippeeeeeee, yeah I know only in my dreams LOL

I'm with Deborah........ I'm going to dedicate a whole gallery of Josh Groban works with the SINCERE HOPE HE COMES AFTER ME!!!! *yummy*

[gavia_immer]

... I then posted the lyrics to Jimmy Buffets song by the same name. I did credit JB with the lyrics ....

Is it stealing if you post an image to lyrics you post? My take is that this is my interpretation of those song lyrics - pure and simple.

What are your thoughts?

To the extent that there is a possible issue it isn't the image but the lyrics. They are likely copyright protected. I wouldn't call it stealing but it is technically a possible copyright infringement and thus it would be illegal use if the case.

The exception would be if it falls under "fair use". Using the lyrics in their entirety in this context probably does not. Using a title or excerpt from them could and thus might be permissible in many cases. Popular music is part of the cultural currency and their needs to be room for social comment and discussion. Some of these uses are well established legally but the devil is always in the details.

Copyright protection is very important but in many ways in recent years it has become distorted and at odds with the original intent. The ultimate underlying goal was the promotion of social benefit. Copyright protection was awarded to encourage the production of creative works not as a property deed.

In practice it is probably pretty hard to demonstrate you have caused any harm (in fact it might promote music sales). This weakens the strength of any copyright infringement claim. It is also the sort of use no one is likely to enforce or to be particularly concerned about. But using the lyrics in their entirety in this case possibly technically does put you on the wrong side of copyright law.

Personally images posted with titles and/or excerpts wouldn't concern me much. I am no legal expert but depending on how it is done and used it may fall under "fair use". But the exact usage and message would need to be considered. If it isn't acceptable it certainly should be in this sort of context.

BTW - I think your use of the lyrics is perfectly reasonable in the PBase context. But copyright law and interpretation isn't necessary always perfectly reasonable. On the other hand the poster was pointing out an inconsistency that was being communicated. How would many on PBase react if say a musician took a photo off PBase and posted it on a blog with their lyrics because they thought it illustrated their lyrics well or it inspired their lyrical interpretation of the photo. Some might be cool with it but many PBasers would go ballistic if past posts and incidents are any indication. Ouch now my head hurts. Just a thought.

[gavia_immer]

...
Seems from this that unless you are performing the song, or distributing and selling, you are OK.

What part makes you conclude this from the cited text? I see the opposite in there.