To all of you Canon EOS 10D Owners:

[gpaai]

I'm not posting this thread to debate over different manufacturers or even compare. I would just like to ask all 10D users what their overall thoughts are on the camera.

What are its strong points as well as its weakest? Is it good for action shots, macro, etc.? How are the mechanics and overall feel?

Is the style of images you now produce a result of the 10D making you feel comfortable with the direction you took? If so what is that style?

I think you know where I'm going with this. I'm just looking for an overall general concensus on a possible next purchase.

Thanks so much,
Gary

[fastuno]

I have had a few point & shoot cameras before buying the 10D. When I first got my hands on this baby it was like magic!

-It feels rock solid in your hands (unlike the plastic/toy feel of a 300d, although they take the same quality of pictures).
-It's very responsive & has a 8 pic buffer, so i can click, click, click.....
-Battery life is decent (at least for me, others I have heard complain)
-Controls are intuitively placed
-Vast collection of lenses and accessories
-Many different options/settings/controls....much freedom!

After owning it for a while, you realize some of the shortcomings:
-Images tend to come out soft out of camera. This improves with the quality of lens you buy (not all of us are willing to spend $1000-2000 on a lens!) Images improve after post processing.
-Bulky & expensive unit/system to carry around.
-Hard to focus manually sometimes, hard to tell when you have exact focus through the viewfinder (especially in low light). Would have been nice to have some type of focusing prism. Even tough to auto focus in low light or low contrast areas.
-Takes too long for internal flash to recharge, but that's the case with most cameras (2-3 sec).
-Would have been nice if each lens came with some type of cap holder/rope (now I am getting too picky!)

Hope this helps, I know it's really hard to accept all of these evaluations until you have truly played with the cam yourself.

[herb1rm]

Gary, go for it.

[castledude]

No I don't own one but do know about 10 guys that do and none of them regret the purchase. I do know some 300D users with buyers remorse.

fastuno gave a great list. The only other complaint I have heard is that the fully automatic mode is pretty bad. This makes it hard to hand over to your non-camera savy relative.

-Takes too long for internal flash to recharge, but that's the case with most cameras (2-3 sec).

My favorite 10D story. I was in a workshop with some other photographers while waiting around I borrowed a model and began to shoot her with my rig. Another guy with a 10D was standing around and I asked him why he wasn't shooting. He explained he forgot to bring his flash. I reached over and pushed the button on the side of his camera popping up the built in flash. He sat dumbfounded for at least a minute, he never knew about the flash.

-Hard to focus manually sometimes, hard to tell when you have exact focus through the viewfinder (especially in low light). Would have been nice to have some type of focusing prism. Even tough to auto focus in low light or low contrast areas.

Some of the photographers I work with are using continuous lights to fix the problem. They attach a video light to the hot shoe and turn it on when focus is a problem.

[ukexpat]

-Images tend to come out soft out of camera. This improves with the quality of lens you buy (not all of us are willing to spend $1000-2000 on a lens!) Images improve after post processing.
-Bulky & expensive unit/system to carry around.

First, I don't think image softness out of the camera is a shortcoming -- it is a factor of the design of the camera. I shoot exclusively in RAW because I want ultimate control over the images I produce and I am prepared to spend time in Photoshop to get it. I do not want the camera imposing its idea of sharpness on my images. If you want sharp pics straight out of the camera, then shoot in JPEG and crank up the sharpness setting -- that's what it's there for. Sharpness is not just dependent on choice of lens.

As to bulky and expensive -- what do you expect? SLR systems are bulky by their very nature. One of the things that should be a factor in your decision to buy an SLR is it's size, weight and cost of ownership, especially if you are going to buy additional lenses, battery packs, flashes etc. If you want a camera that will fit in your shirt pocket and not break the bank, buy a point-and-shoot.

Sorry if this sounds aggressive, but to my mind, these are not shortcomings, they are just what goes along with buying a camera that is part of a semi-pro system.

[ukexpat]

Some of the photographers I work with are using continuous lights to fix the problem. They attach a video light to the hot shoe and turn it on when focus is a problem.

Another option is to buy the ST-E2 flash controller. Even when not used with a flash it has built-in autofocus assistance.

[fastuno]

Aggressive indeed!
Keep in mind that we are advising a new buyer. Bulky & pricy are definitely shortcomings no matter how anyone looks at it, and the buyer should be made aware. The fact that the camera handles so well I am willing to overlook its shortcomings. To this I can attest for I have purchased the camera & have not sold it yet! If another camera came out that was 25% lighter than the 10D, but with all the same features, I would surely sell the 10D & buy the new model. I live in NY & need a body guard to go out with this. The bulk & that beautiful Canon logo on the strap is really a sign that says "STEAL ME".

Let me tell you a story...I was at a friends taking pictures of everyone at a party, toward the end of the day I was asked to copy pics from my memory card to their computer. None of the people I took pictures of knew anything about photography, much less the 10D. When these people saw these pictures you can only imagine what thoughts went through their mind about a $3000 system (lenses included) that took such soft pictures. Lighting and color were perfect, they were simply soft (just not sharp). I knew that they can easily be fixed & USM'd in Photoshop & made to look much better.

Softness is an issue with dSLR's in general & with the 10D ESPECIALLY! Not everyone has the time nor wants to spend hours on their computers modifying pictures. Not everyone is into photography for the sake of a hobby, some people simply want to take good pictures!

[ukexpat]

Softness is an issue with dSLR's in general & with the 10D ESPECIALLY! Not everyone has the time nor wants to spend hours on their computers modifying pictures. Not everyone is into photography for the sake of a hobby, some people simply want to take good pictures!

Whether you are right or wrong about the sharpness issue is a topic for another day, but the simple answer for the potential buyer is this: "If you want simplicity then a digital SLR is probably (note probably) not for you".

[fastuno]

I have done a quick test with a Canon 28-135 IS and a Sigma 28-80 & it turns out that the Canon (although not incredibly sharp) took sharper pictures than the Sigma. Picture with the Canon gave more detail than that of the Sigma, with some pictures it was more noticeable than others.

Anyway, when I hopped over to this site http://www.photodo.com/nav/prodindex.html I noticed the MTF rating for the Canon lens (3.5) was higher than that of the Sigma (2.7). This would mean that more detail between an object and an adjacent object can be defined. Borders will be clearer, thus producing a sharper image. As a result of my test & this site I have vowed not to purchase any lens below a 4.0 rating, but this leaves me with a bitter pricy tag!

Just out of curiosity why is an "L" series lens deemed better than your average non-L lens? Is it because it takes sharper pictures, or takes pictures with more vivid & true-to-life colors? From what I have seen I agree with both. But an L lens doesn't guarantee you a great shot. Given the right conditions a picture with an L lens would be difficult if not impossible to replicate with a standard lens. Yes, I will bite my tongue on this one, hoping to be proven wrong! Evidence will be in the links.

[decloedt]

Softness is an issue with dSLR's in general & with the 10D ESPECIALLY! Not everyone has the time nor wants to spend hours on their computers modifying pictures.

I'm with Nigel on this one. That's not a bug, it's a feature. The whole point of shooting RAW is so the photographer has ultimate control over the results. I know I sure don't want my 10D applying some arbitrary amount of sharpening to the pictures it takes when it doesn't even know what the subject matter is. I can do that myself in Photoshop, where I can do it right. And it only takes a few seconds.

[fastuno]

Yes, I did not mention it but I am wih Nigel on that too! BUT, that is why they invented buttons, switches, and toggles. There shouldn't be a reason why the 10D couldn't take sharp camera edited pictures & by the stroke of a swtich give you back you creative freedom (soft pictures & all). I wouldn't want to part with that feature either, I am just saying there are times where you just want good pictures without having to edit hundreds of them!

[ukexpat]

Yes, I did not mention it but I am wih Nigel on that too! BUT, that is why they invented buttons, switches, and toggles. There shouldn't be a reason why the 10D couldn't take sharp camera edited pictures & by the stroke of a swtich give you back you creative freedom (soft pictures & all). I wouldn't want to part with that feature either, I am just saying there are times where you just want good pictures without having to edit hundreds of them!

The 10D can do that -- you just shoot JPEG and increase the sharpness setting!!

[fastuno]

I know, I have tried that. The pictures definitely come out better, but still not where I would like it to be.

[ukexpat]

I know, I have tried that. The pictures definitely come out better, but still not where I would like it to be.

Crikey -- I think the top level of built-in sharpening is way too much. Another factor is that the CMOS sensor that Canon uses is a lot "smoother" than most CCD sensors. I guess I just prefer that smootheness plus a little USM from Photoshop.

[fastuno]

These are the pictures that I consider sharp & would love to take.

http://www.pbase.com/image/27334551
http://www.pbase.com/image/28602868
http://www.pbase.com/image/26871210
http://www.pbase.com/image/29487970
http://www.pbase.com/image/27173607
http://www.pbase.com/image/27722653
http://www.pbase.com/image/23938355
http://www.pbase.com/image/4593055

I know I have better examples, but these will do for now.


Looks like the only way to do this is to buy an expensive lens & do a lot of editing. Does anyone have any really impressive & sharp pictures from a standard lens (or any links for that matter)?