PBase

iI's going to make a lot of people very happy (hopefully)


http://www.sigma-dp1.com/

http://www.sigma-dp1.com/catalog/DP1_Sp ... ons_EN.pdf

sean_mcr wrote:iI's going to make a lot of people very happy (hopefully)


http://www.sigma-dp1.com/

http://www.sigma-dp1.com/catalog/DP1_Sp ... ons_EN.pdf

yes, yes, all very well and good, and I drooled all over that site months and months and months ago... after waiting what seemed for ever I put a pre order on a just announced (back then) canon G9, which I waited a couple of months for and have now owned for close to 3 months.

so, when, oh when, is there a release date for this?

'cause the best camera isn't the next one you buy, it's the one in your hand right now.

You might want to read this, they have been having problems and had to redesign the thing...

http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/ne ... 071130.htm

Thanks, I do not own a small camera even when I did I just ended up taking the DSLR this one could change that

On paper this looks like a fantastic little camera, hope to see it available someday

regards
Ray

sean_mcr wrote:iI's going to make a lot of people very happy (hopefully)


http://www.sigma-dp1.com/

http://www.sigma-dp1.com/catalog/DP1_Sp ... ons_EN.pdf

It has been a long time comming and there has been set-backs and it will in no way replace what i have already, it will compliment it (assuming it's a good camera). Even if it doesn't turn out to be a good it will at least start a new trend in compact cameras.

Edit

Why i've only just noticed that the lens is F/4 i don't know. But i think that's a mistake on sigma's part and will make many people shy from it,. Slowest lens i have is F/2.0 there's many times for me where F/4 is simply not an option; I very much doubt that i'll end up with one

using a "full sized" sized sensor - which is actually a bit of a porky pie as it's a 1.6 FoV sensor (28mm equiv from a 16mm lens) you can run it at iso 400 as a base ISO and it is as noise free as an equivalent DSLR at 400 iso


(though that said I'm not familiar with Sigma's foveon sensor's ability to handle noise but in a pixel/area ratio it's still going to be inherently less noisy than a compact camera's microscopic sensor using the same tech base)

F 4 only loses a stop on a fast zoom ( 2.8 ) .. so it's not that slow compared to a lot of lenses out there I mean - Canon has no shortage of excellent L series lenses that have F4 as their widest aperture yet they are used by pro's the world over, and not just extreme telephoto either some are wide angle zooms.

you try run even the best compact and even at it's lowest ISO settings it still gets blown away by any DSLR at 400 (even my 5 year old D60 at ISO 400 totally beats my G9 at 80 ISO for noise levels, my 20D gives consistently cleaner shots at 1600 ISO than my work's Powershot Pro does at 200 ISO)

even if it can't be pushed much past 800 iso then f 4 at 800 ISO is still 3 stop faster than f 2.8 at 100 ISO on a compact.

Add to that you're going to have substantially better glass out the front than a compact not just optically/CA/ distortion wise but better ability to make aperture actually give a real DoF effect on a "real lens" rather than the deep DoF a compact lens gives even at wide open.

So it doesn't have to win against the DSLR's - only to comprehensively out perform the high end compacts to be a winner.


Personally my only real wish is that it had a proper lens mounting system for removable glass.

As you pointed out, the lens is not interchangeable so they had to come up with something better then F/4, i don't have a lens slower then F/2


F/2.8 and F/4.0 is twice the light, that's not an issue when you've got the sun on your side but that's not how i shoot. I need light i need a lens that will allow me to cover various conditions, that's why i only use fixed focus lenses. I'm often at iso 800 1600 3200 and that's often at F/1.4.

An example of how i shoot

1/80 sec F/1.4 ISO 1600




The foveon sensor does not have a good rep with noise

A fixed focal length lens at F/4 is going to have a negative impact on its sales. It's not a mainstream compact; it's going to appeal to certain kinds of shooters, street photographers/available light shooters.


I like what sigma is trying to do and it may push other makers to address what many people are screaming out for. But the sigma is not for me

And to think, i started this thread

Cheers

Sean

sean_mcr wrote:<snip>

An example of how i shoot

1/80 sec F/1.4 ISO 1600
<snip>
Sean

OK yeh I can see that f4 is likely to be an issue ... dare I say you look like you might be a Leica fan that just hasn't realised it yet ;P

sean_mcr wrote:The foveon sensor does not have a good rep with noise

Sean

did some research after I posted the previous reply, though I understand the Foveon principal I wasn't familiar with their commercialization (in fact the optical quality of silicon I well knew and I recall a long conversation way back early/mid 90's, well before digital cameras were a twinkle in the eye of the electronics goods salesman, with an science engineering friend of mine who was talking about the potential of something similar to foveon style sensors in scientific instruments )

and yeh it does seem to have a negative reputation... even those who say that it can be used noise free at high ISO say you have to over expose by a stop and a half once you hit 800ISO... which basically means what you lose on the roundabouts you're not really gaining on the swings

Don't get me wrong, i don't threat tOo much about noise. You do what it takes to get the shot. But as said elsewhere, nobody would buy a F/4 28mm prime for a slr/dslr and it's even more of an issue when it's your only lens option

It was already a niche camera, F/4 is only going to make it more so.

As for the Leica

I could have had one for my Birthday. It would have replaced what i have, but then i'm happy with what i have. What i was looking for was something to complement it, but the sigma isn't the camera; Close but no cigar

Cheers pal

Sean

marxz wrote: so, when, oh when, is there a release date for this?

From what I heard, most likely it would be next spring.

f4 is a deal breaker for me, I want the larger sensor for depth of field control (blur distracting back grounds) and decent higher ISO performance both will be limited at f4

regards
Ray

sean_mcr wrote:It has been a long time comming and there has been set-backs and it will in no way replace what i have already, it will compliment it (assuming it's a good camera). Even if it doesn't turn out to be a good it will at least start a new trend in compact cameras.

Edit

Why i've only just noticed that the lens is F/4 i don't know. But i think that's a mistake on sigma's part and will make many people shy from it,. Slowest lens i have is F/2.0 there's many times for me where F/4 is simply not an option; I very much doubt that i'll end up with one

Phil has posted first test images of DP1 on dpreview today.

For those interested:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0802/08020 ... allery.asp

from their discussion board:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=26623408