I have a decision to make (with your help of course)

[gpaai]

Hi Everyone!

I dropped by the local Camera Shop to try to find out when the Olympus C-8080 would be available to the public and was told the end of March, beginning of April.

I really like what I have heard about it Online so far.

So back to the Camera Shop.

I walk in and begin asking questions and before I know it, the sales person hands me a Canon Digital Rebel. He starts with an impressive sales pitch that almost had me walking out the door with a new camera.

A couple of things stopped me. One, while they sold all makes, they were primarily a Canon dealer, and two, I wanted to get a little feedback from some of the Online forums.

I read the Steve's review and while he gave it a great review, he considered the Rebel an amateur level camera (from what I understood). Does this have to do with the price or are there hidden drawbacks I should be aware of?

Bottom line, would it be possible to get professional results, (the kind a photographer makes money with) with either the C-8080 or D-Rebel? And of the two, which one would you steer towards?

Thanks for any input.

Gary

[castledude]

Cameras don't take pictures ... Photographers do...

Now that I have been a little trite. I'll answer your questions:

Is the Digital Rebel Professional grade: Yes and no

The innards are pro level with great Focal Plane (I prefer CCD over CMOS but this is a good CMOS) the Canon optics are the best made.

The outers (frame) is a little questionable. Plastic vs Metal probably not a great camera to go into war with. But for the average person it will hold up well.

Firmware is slightly crippled: They didn't want to compete with the 10D so they dumbed down the Rebel. This is what makes most people the maddest about this camera.

Is the Oly 8080 pro grade: Yes and no
Good Optics, probably similar to the Reb for body duribility, much better firmware (all the bells and creative whistles).

The Focal plane is smaller, noisier and won't give you as good low light performance (the DREB is pretty much noise free at ASA 400, the Oly will probably top out at ASA 100).

The smaller lense is not as good as 35mm optics, it will have more distortion and CA.

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The Pro's I know would consider these to be backup cameras great to carry in the bag when the big expensive camera doesn't work.
Good to hand over to the wife or assistant when on a trip.

But remember a Pro makes his living with his camera, he/she will have different requirements than a semi-pro or hobbiest.
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Other cameras in the same class as the Oly are the new Pro1 Canon and Minolta A1.

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The new NIKON D70 seems to be loved by Steve like the DREB it is a lighter body but they didn't short change the firmware. It may actually be a better camera than the more expensive D100.

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Wanna go "PRO" look at the Kodak 14n, Canon 1Ds and 1D Mark 2 those are pro cameras and come with a pro price.

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You wanna take pro level pictures? Get something you can handle and shoot, shoot, shoot. Take classes, join clubs go to shoot outs. Then when you know how to shoot and what limitations are in your present camera get the camera with the features you want. No camera yet made is perfect for all types of shoot. 4x5 film is still useful, P & S cameras are useful. Sports shooting is not the same as shooting a wedding.

Most of all remember if you are not having fun doing this you are not doing it right.

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PMA really confused me too.. I am waiting for reviews but am torn between the D70 and the Minolta A1

[wilfredmrand]

I use the DReb/300D professionally as well as for artistic purposes and though it can be accurately termed a serious entry-level instrument, it is not for the casual amateur. For that crowd there are some fabulous P&S cameras available. The 300D is an excellent camera and it will require additional investment....this puts it in the professional, artistic or sub-professional categories. The investment will come in lenses and other equipment particular to your needs, and in a learning curve. This is not your brother-in-law's grab 'n' go film Rebel. You'll quickly tire of green square mode and other automatic functions....and move into the more advance modes ('creative modes' Canon calls them). That means shooting in RAW and processing images on your Mac or PC to extract the very best out of your photographs.

From a technical standpoint, these are the basics: the crystal clear 6mp Canon CMOS sensor is the same as in 10D and D60, and the 300D uses the exact same lenses. For the advanced users who require or desire things like mirror lockup, FEC, selectable metering and focus modes, you have to spend more.

But not much more, if the imminent release of the Nikon D70 appeals to you. Also 6mp, uses a CCD sensor (it is a bit noisier but probably nothing you'd ever see in an 8x10)...and it packs a ton of features. Body only price is pegged at about $250 higher than what you can actually get a 300D for: $725 300D, $999 D70. It won't take a better picture than the 300D, at best it will be equal. If you want to push the envelope to 11x14 prints and beyond, the 300D will be better....probably....there are no production D70's available yet so we can only guess by what we see posted on the internet.

The professional 10mp+ Canon, Kodak, Fuji are very pricey. The Canon model is field tested and extremely good. For $7K. And don't even think about less than 'L' class lenses. The Nikon-body Kodak and Fuji have problems that relegate them mostly to in-studio use, especially Kodak. There's an 8mp Canon 1D MkII coming, but at around $4K it's still mighty expensive. But it'll be a great image, no question. Same chip as 300D, only a 1.3 crop - that's how it gets to 8mp.

For me, I'd probably still choose the 300D over the D70 because my images appear on 22x28 posters, though I occasionally miss some of the advanced features. Guess I could have bought a 10D, or a used D60 (Yeah, right. Try to find one.). But my strategy was to enter the dSLR market, gain knowledge, make a little money, and get an 8-10mp body a few years down the line when they become more affordable (or justifiable) and I know more exactly what my needs are.

[castledude]

Ever think of being in politics the way you play with numbers shows some ability . Come-on lets not compare the grey market price of the Canon to the list price of the Nikon. Once released I'm sure it will go down in a similar way.

I actually was loaned a 300D for a week by a friend. In daylight the camera amazing. Quiet easy focusing, easy to use, menus were a learing curve but not bad at all.

Then I took it inside and the flash problems were annoying. The "disco Danny" way of providing focus illumination was not professional (think of using that in a wedding or graduation). Next the lack of FEC on the flashes makes the pictures not work as is. I also didn't care for the white balance when using the flash. The hot shoe is only protected to 5V (this is below the value of most safesyncs).

There are work arounds (most costing $$$) but the idea that I had to change the entire way of shooting just to do flash didn't seem right. When shooting with a 35mm SLR the transition from outdoor to flash was a lot simpler. When I went back and did research I found that most of these problems were because Canon decided not to compete with the 10D so they dumbed down the Reb.

Most of my shooting is with studio lighting so I have to consider that in my equation.

If I had a Reb would I sell it for the D70 ... No it is a good camera and I am sure I could get used to it's quirks.

For a new camera (and assuming real reviews will match up) the D70 seems better than the Reb. If not then my fall back would be the Canon
10D.

[wilfredmrand]

My camera is NOT gray market. If you wait for the right moment, you can walk into Sears (10% off plus $75 off anything in the store) and get the price I paid. Actually, I bought the camera at a camera store with a price match policy. Serial No. of the camera is authorized US market edition - I confirmed this when I registered it with Canon.

No question if shooting flash is an important part of your professional regime, this is probably not the camera for you. You have to use RC sync in the studio.

Nevertheless, there is no question that there is nothing about this camera that prevents you from setting up and taking great photographs....of equal output caliber to 10D/D60.

And like I said, I use it professionally - I actually make money with this camera. If I knew it would have paid for itself 3x over in the first month, I might have moved up a step. But I'm actually waiting to climb two rungs with my next purchase. And I can wait a couple years becasue I am loving this camera.