Is this typical of a Canon EOS 10D?

[wsolum]

10D owners:

I've had a bear of a time trying to determine if my 10D results are bad or typical. Can anyone with 10D experience take a peek at these two galleries and tell me what they think?

http://www.pbase.com/wsolum/canon_10d_focus_question
http://www.pbase.com/wsolum/10d_bad_focus

The first gallery has photos that I consider to be the most in focus, the other, shooting under the same conditions, are simply unacceptable. The exif information is gone, but all shots were with shutter speeds fast enough to rule out camera shake or subject movement.

I'm using a Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM II and aperture is 4.5 or smaller. The depth of field ought to be around 6 inches but the focus area seems far shallower.

Your help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks,
Wayne

[ugot2bkdng]

Well, I don't consider them typical, that is for sure. All of the shots in this gallery, with the exception of the last rose, are 10D shots . http://www.pbase.com/ugot2bkdng/favorite10dshots

There has been a lot posted on 10D focus problems here

http://forums.dpreview.com//forums/forum.asp?forum=1019

I am not saying you have a bad camera or lens. I am just saying from my experience, not typical results.

[stanmore]

I don't think it's typical Wayne. These three links have full-sized 10D captures - two with shallow DOF - and they don't have any focussing error...
http://www.pbase.com/image/22617657/original
http://www.pbase.com/image/23854759/original
http://www.pbase.com/image/22453404/original
Most of the (downsized) pic's in other galleries are 10D captures too.
How do you set up and use the AF exactly?

[wsolum]

I use center spot and set focus mode to AI Focus (as instructed by Canon tech support). Are the shots you linked un-sharpened?

[stanmore]

The AI is possibly the cause of your problem IMHO. UTry the center spot and recompose with One-Shot mode whenever possible.

My shots were all capturesd in raw. The Meerkat and Dome were processed in C1 with Soft Sharpening at 76 (out of 400). The protestors raw was processed in PS CS - Sharpening set to 20 (out of 100).
These sharpening settings are way below the level of JPEG sharpening that can be set in-camera.

[ugot2bkdng]

Center spot and One-Shot mode is also what I use most of the time.

[wsolum]

What is C1? And I assume you're adjusting color and contrast? Could you post an unretouched photo to one of your galleries so I can compare?

The AI is possibly the cause of your problem IMHO. UTry the center spot and recompose with One-Shot mode whenever possible.

My shots were all capturesd in raw. The Meerkat and Dome were processed in C1 with Soft Sharpening at 76 (out of 400). The protestors raw was processed in PS CS - Sharpening set to 20 (out of 100).
These sharpening settings are way below the level of JPEG sharpening that can be set in-camera.

[stanmore]

C1 is 'Capture One' - Phase One's raw conversion software. In terms of workflow it's the best converter I've come across. The 'LE' version is all you need for the 10D. Link here ... http://www.c1dslr.com/
The 3 JPEG's I linked to are pretty much 'unretouched' - Even at -2 sharpness setting a 10D in-camera JPEG is still being sharpened. To turn off sharpening in raw conversion obviously yields a very soft image ... See the 100% 'before' snips here ... http://www.pbase.com/image/20589841/original for an example of C1 with sharpening turn completely off. FVU & BB off is even softer.
Some amount of sharpening is just necessary with raw (as with in-cam JPEG).

[wsolum]

phoenikz:

Thanks for your help. I have eliminated one MAJOR source of the problem -- the Tiffen filters.

See the 100% crops in this gallery: http://www.pbase.com/wsolum/filteristheculprit, some with, some without filters. As you can see, the ones with filters are muddy. Are Tiffen filters just crap? Of the pictures without filters, do these represent typical 10D capability?

Thanks

[stanmore]

Tiffen filters aren't really a UK brand and I've never used any of them. I do remember that the first filters I bought were a cheap brand and that they had a marked detrimental effect to image quality. I now use Hoya *multi-coated* UV's to protect my expensive lenses, and no filter at all on the cheaper ones. There generally seems to be no difference at all to image quality with these filters - perhaps a little more risk of flare though. I have to ask why do you use a warming filter with a digital cam'? Could you not just alter white balance for the same effect? And why a polariser in flat diffused light?
I think that your unfiltered shots are pretty typical of the 24-85mm's capabilty. For general shooting with that lens just fit the hood and leave off filters - and stop down to around f/8 whenever possible.

[wsolum]

Why? Because I'm a sucker. I tried to tell the salesman at Adorama the same thing. Then, since I had them, I thought I should use them. The circular polarizer shot had cropped out of it areas where hot light was reflecting off of leaves.

Anyway, for the price of the three filter kit, I could have gotten one very good circular polarizer. Guess now's a good time to try the role of seller on eBay.

[stanmore]

...I see. When you find a knowledgable and honest camera shop that's service orientated stick with 'em despite the prices - They're always well worth a few more pounds/dollars.
Very pleased to hear that the 'problem's' pretty much solved for you now. A 10D's good for 18x12" exhibition quality prints so it's always a little sad to hear of these problematic issues. I wonder how many of the other 10D focussing 'errors' have been caused by these filters???

[cslr_challenge]

I have 10D shots that do not display any problem. I would refer you to:
http://www.bohne.com/canon10d.jpg

I would consider the following:

1) Best lens=best image. Your current lens doesn't qualify.
2) Get rid of all the AF spots and use center spot only
3) In your parameters, try sharpening at +2
4) Get rid of the predictive autofocus (AI?). If the branches were moving due to a breeze, you will find the camera seems to think "this must be the subject"
5) Use single shot.

After all this, if you still have a problem, return the camera for inspection.

[wsolum]

Lesson learned. My lens is not even 2 months old but it's too late to return it. What irks me is that I was using Tamron lenses when I first called Canon for assistance. The girl on the phone turned her nose up and insisted that the only lenses that work with the 10D are their own - ANY Canon lens. But since I have it, I'll do some tests at the different focal lengths to see if I can live with it for now or should try to trade it in. I've heard good things about the Tamron 28-75 2.8 XR Di. What would you recommend for the low to med end?

Thanks for the link, btw.

[stanmore]

Wayne - Any low priced zoom - Canon, Tamron, whatever, looks a bit soft when you're viewing a 6MP DSLR image at 100%. Your 24-85mm for my tastes is too soft at wide angles and wide open. It's also poor in the corners despite the 10D x1.6 crop. Still, at mid to long zoom range and in mid apertures it does the job.
I've never used the new Tamron. I did once own the Tokina 28-70mm f/2.8 ATX-Pro which was a lens that lots of people 'raved' about ... again soft (and CA too). It really does seem to me that with zooms you really do get what you pay for. Perhaps you could stretch to a SH Canon 28-70mm f/2.8 L? They're about as good as any zoom gets. If not there's the even sharper and a whole load cheaper Canon 50mm f1.4. It's the lens that sits on my 10D the most. Primes at the end of the day are the last word in image quality and value ... it's only convenience that 'suffers'

Simon