Color Management Oddity

[wsolum]

I used Component One to extract this picture http://www.pbase.com/image/26366476/original and it looks great in C1 and on PBase, but when I open it in Photoshop (using Adobe RGB 1998 which is the target profile out of C1) the image looks darker and less contrasty. It seems to need a gamma boost but I don't know where I can do that only in Photoshop (I'm using version 6.0).

My workflow is to make adjustments in C1, "develop" as jpg using convert to profile, then opening in Photoshop, resizing and converting to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 and saving without imbedding the profile.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Wayne

[creativeimagery]

Hi Wayne,

I seem to keep finding your posts! I sent another response to your concerns about the 24-85mm lens softness. Is this picture taken with that lens? If so, you seem to have solved the softness problem, as this image looks great.

As for your current problem, all I can say is welcome to the wonderful wacky world of color profiles! I'm not familiar with the software "C1", so I don't know what's meant by its 'target profile", and I don't know if it actually converts the image to Adobe RGB, or just trys to display it that way on the screen (of does something else). Do you know what profile your camera or scanner is using? Most use sRGB, but I believe that some cameras give you the option of using Adobe RGB. If your device is using sRGB try leaving it in that color space and telling Photoshop not to convert it to Adobe RGB. Does that change what you see on the display?

Web browsers don't care about color space, and most (I believe) use something approaching sRGB. This is a smaller color space than Adobe RGB, so there's going to be some visual changes when viewed in the two color spaces. Most of my images aren't for the web, but when I prepare images for the web I use Photoshop and work in Adobe RGB, then convert the image to sRGB for the web and tweak the appearance as needed to get as close as I can to Adobe RGB. This usually gives me satisfactory results. (If I was only working for the web, I'd work in sRGB all along). You might try skipping the color profile conversion step if all you intend to do is display the image on your screen.

You might try doing all of your image editing in Photoshop. It's probably got a much steeper learning curve than C1, but it will be worthwhile to get some Photoshop competence. You might try the "Level" and "Curves" tools in Photoshop to adjust the "gamma". I can recommend a book for you. It's "The Photoshop Book for Digital Photographers" by Scott Kelby.

Finally, beware of .jpg format. It's a "lossy" format, which means that (almost) every time you save the image as a jpg you permanently lose some information. There's lots of discussion about this on the web regarding how much data is lost, and when, but there's no doubt that it's not the preferred format for permanently saving your images.

I hope this is helpful.

Terry

[ukexpat]

Terry

Yes you are correct. The 10D can be set to Adobe RGB colour space. As for web browsers, I think they are all sRGB rather than "colour space agnostic"...I think I read somewhere that if an application does not have built-in support for anything other than sRGB, then it's only sRGB.

[wsolum]

C1 is Capture One (http://www.alphaone.com - highly recommended) and is a Raw file developer. It includes a profile for the 10D that really pops the colors. In order to preserve the appearance when "developing" (converting) the images, you select either "Convert To" the target profile (say Adobe RGB) or "Embed" the profile, which I presume saves the 10D color profile in the file for interpretation in the intended target app (Photoshop). These options are identical to the "Convert to Profile" and "Assign Profile" in Photoshop, without the options for black point compensation, dither and rendering intent.

And you are right, I should be outputting to sRGB if my intent is web display. However, I was doing this as an additional step in Photoshop.

My problem is that converting the image to the Adobe RGB color space when "developing" it from Capture One, then opening it in Photoshop where my working color space is Adobe RGB the images look dull. But if I ignore this and resize, sharpen and convert to sRGB for display on pBase and upload them the pictures look as they did in Capture One. (No complaint about that. Just wondering why I'm not seeing it correctly in Photoshop.)

So, what software do you use to process your CRW files?

[creativeimagery]

Wayne,

A couple of possibilities come to mind. It may be that C1 doesn't actually do the conversion to Adobe RGB color space, even though it says it does. What may be a more likely possiblity is that your display color space in Photoshop is sRGB, rather than Adobe RGB. Do you know how to check that? Finally, Adobe has a utility, Adobe Monitor Gamma, that allows you to set your monitor properly. It's a control panel in Windows, not sure what it is if you're using a Mac. Is Adobe Monitor Gamma loading when you start your computer? If so, you may want to look at it and tweak your display a bit. I've had similar problems getting my images to match when viewing them with different applications. I finally settled on Photoshop and figured out how to get that to output the colors I want. Have you tried printing yet? Wait 'til you get into THAT color matching tar pit! As I said, welcome to the wonderful, wacky world of color profiles. Wheee........!

BTW, I use Photoshop 7 and the RAW plugin to open RAW files. I don't think Photoshop 6 can use the RAW plugin. However, you can probably open your camera files with C1 and save them as TIFFs, which is a lossless format. You can then open them in Photoshop. JPEG = BAD for images you want to edit and preserve. JPEG is OK for displaying images on the web (in fact it's preferred).

Thanks for your comments about my flower shots! I always love to get compliments.

Terry

[wsolum]

An unmentioned contributor to my frustration is that I'm using Monaco EZColor and have a profiled monitor. (I re-profiled it last night just to be sure that wasn't the problem -- no change before and after.) The gamma tables are loading correctly and my working space is Adobe RGB 1998.

I've worked somewhat with printing using the Epson profiles and have had decent results. The discovery in this current issue that PS 6 isn't displaying my images correctly casts doubt on the printing results. I'm also trying to get the Fuji Frontier system at Sam's to produce good, no, make that GREAT images with very mixed results. Been experimenting with Black Point, Rendering Intent and saving the jpgs with and without embedded embedded ICC profiles. It seems every source for information on how to integrate color management recommends a different approach. But the first order of business is to get my monitor reliably displaying images in PS.