Show and Tell

Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:07 pm

Yup....the drunks always say they are responsible until they kill somebody then it becomes the bar owners fault. Promoting yourself, kids, beer, or all three of them together is not my idea of quality content. Funny or not. I have a right to my opinion.

People in my family do not die of old age they are killed by drunk drivers. Thats the bottom line. Tell your "resonsible' stuff to my decapitated aunt's son. Maybe he will buy it but I sure won't.

Bottoms uP!

Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:25 pm

minoltaman wrote:
If, as MM suggests, people got arrested for such things, we'd have to build a jail on every corner to hold all the "offenders."

My stepfather
My brother in-law
My aunt
My cousin

All killed by drunk drivers (not themselves) in seperate accidents. I am only 38. Two were ran over by semi's. One on a motorcycle the other iin a car both stopped at red lights. My cousin died as a college freshman with 5 other area college students. Hit head-on by a drunk that crossed the center line. My stepdad was killed by his drunk son when he drove them off the road and broke his neck in the crash.

Cheers

I am deeply sorry about the deaths of your loved ones. But you can't blame their deaths on the drinks. You can only blame the stupid drivers who knew better, but couldn't careless.

Remember, I live in a society where drinking is not only a part of our culture, but it's our way of life. In Europe, people drink on a social basis. If someone drinks and drives, they are the idiot. You can't blame the thousands more that drink but respect the laws and rules of our society.

You know, a knee-jerk reaction is sometimes a very dangerous thing.

You claim the pstewert was "promoting" herself, kids and beer. That is simply bollocks. Maybe if kids in your country learned about alcohol at an early age in a respectable environment, around responsible adults and family members instead of having to wait until 21, and thus start binge drinking behind their parents back at 16, there would be less reckless drunken drivers on the roads killing innocent people.

All pstewert done was have an artistic idea, and put it to film. Do you really think a 4year old like in those photo's, is going to browse through the book, and then get into a drunken rage as a result??!!

Year, you have a right to your opinion. And I, for one, would never wish that right to be curtailed. But I have to tell you, that my opinion is that you really should lighten up and think about things a bit more.

Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:44 pm

Hey don't blame me. I do not drink.

Small children seeing junk like this book just leads them to be curious about beer at younger age than they already would have. It is not legal here to promote alcohol with children.

You need to stop comparing our country with yours. I have seen 13 countries around the world myself. Half of them they don't wear cloths, go topless, or wipe there ass with there bare hand. What is appropriate there may not be here.

Show me some other American publications that put beer and children together for a laugh. You will be hardpressed to find any period. This type of thing is just not to appropriate to most of us Americans.

Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:46 pm

All pstewert done was have an artistic idea, and put it to film. Do you really think a 4year old like in those photo's, is going to browse through the book, and then get into a drunken rage as a result??!!

Uh....formative years....ever heard of them...maybe not.

We have millions of families here that have been alcoholics for generations. It's passed on from father to son. Know what I mean? Maybe not...you are over there.

Kids sees daddy and mommy have fun with beer. Kid learns to want to have fun with beer.

PS. A HUGE number of drunken killers are young drivers over here. Are you new or something? :wink:

Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:14 am

I gathered you don't drink. And I also presume that you and your family are deeply religious.

Well, all do respect, I really like your country, and I don't want to be seen or thought of as putting it down, but as far as drinking goes, maybe your country has it all wrong. It's fine to put a gun in the hand of an 18year old kid, send him to another country in a uniform and kill dozens of non-Americans, but after he kills a few non-American's, he's still not "man" enough to have a beer to chill out until he's 21.

This is what your society believes. Killing another human being is something that an 18year old can do. But drinking a glass of beer is so much more serious, that one must be (in most states) 21years old.

An 18year old can go to prison, legally use firearms, vote in elections, be treated as a full adult. but can't have a glass of wine in front of the fireplace with his/her partner!!!!

Now seriously, in country's in which children start drinking WITH their family's at a young age, in a responsible way, with responsible parents, usually grow up to be responsible drinkers. There is very little if ANY binge drinking in the European country's where this is done. However, In country's where drinking is so taboo that murdering another human being is considered more natural and acceptable, obviously teeneagers will start drinking behind their parents back, and usually develop no responsibility with the alcohol.

Now you can make your own mind up about it minoltaman. You said you've travelled the world. Well, look at it with open eyes, and be honest with yourself, and maybe... just maybe you'll see that sometimes other idea's work better.

oh... one more thing...

And your statement that by seeing that book a tiny child will want to start drinking, is quite simply the most rediculous thing I have read this week. So, let me get this right. When your children see the hundreds of dead and murdered people on American television every day, do they go out and kill people themselves?????[/b]

Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:28 am

I gathered you don't drink. And I also presume that you and your family are deeply religious.

Wrongo...I am not religious at all. I closed bars in many a country. I have slept stone drunk on the beaches of Africa and the Maldives and on dirt floors in the PI. I've got waisted beyond belief more times than I care to remember. I just don't drink anymore. Don't need to.

Well, all do respect, I really like your country, and I don't want to be seen or thought of as putting it down, but as far as drinking goes, maybe your country has it all wrong. It's fine to put a gun in the hand of an 18year old kid, send him to another country in a uniform and kill dozens of non-Americans, but after he kills a few non-American's, he's still not "man" enough to have a beer to chill out until he's 21

Old argument. Belongs in the political forum not in this thread.

This is what your society believes. Killing another human being is something that an 18year old can do. But drinking a glass of beer is so much more serious, that one must be (in most states) 21years old.

Uhhh...look buddy that 18 year old is defending us and helping protect the free world. Again, wrong forum.

An 18year old can go to prison, legally use firearms, vote in elections, be treated as a full adult. but can't have a glass of wine in front of the fireplace with his/her partner!!!!

Yup...thats the law. we have lots of them here.

Now you can make your own mind up about it minoltaman. You said you've travelled the world. Well, look at it with open eyes, and be honest with yourself, and maybe... just maybe you'll see that sometimes other idea's work better.

Yup...I have partied with some real cool peeps in 13 countries plus my own. Hawaii too. And yup...There is no place like home. The good old USA. Although a couple places were real close.

And your statement that by seeing that book a tiny child will want to start drinking, is quite simply the most rediculous thing I have read this week. So, let me get this right. When your children see the hundreds of dead and murdered people on American television every day, do they go out and kill people themselves?????[/b]

Get off it...you sound like a commie now. Please refrain from this foolishness and niavety. Yes tv has an effect on children as well but this discussion has no place in the show and tell threads.

Take you and your political bullsmack down to the proper forum. I'll give you a lesson in Americana since it seems you need one. My buddy 12 footer may be around to show the way in case I am not there when you arrive.

AMERICA ROCKS and don't you ever forget it.

Later

Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:21 am

minoltaman wrote:
I gathered you don't drink. And I also presume that you and your family are deeply religious.

Wrongo...I am not religious at all. I closed bars in many a country. I have slept stone drunk on the beaches of Africa and the Maldives and on dirt floors in the PI. I've got waisted beyond belief more times than I care to remember. I just don't drink anymore. Don't need to.
So what happened, you turned into an alcoholic and now you want it banned from everyone else including those who drink responsibly?

Well, all do respect, I really like your country, and I don't want to be seen or thought of as putting it down, but as far as drinking goes, maybe your country has it all wrong. It's fine to put a gun in the hand of an 18year old kid, send him to another country in a uniform and kill dozens of non-Americans, but after he kills a few non-American's, he's still not "man" enough to have a beer to chill out until he's 21

Old argument. Belongs in the political forum not in this thread.
Wrong again, your opinion was a politically based one. It wasn't based on the artistic value of the work in question, but your personal political perspective of it.

This is what your society believes. Killing another human being is something that an 18year old can do. But drinking a glass of beer is so much more serious, that one must be (in most states) 21years old.

Uhhh...look buddy that 18 year old is defending us and helping protect the free world. Again, wrong forum.
That wasn't my point, and it is real sad that you had to see it all back to America vrs the world. My point was why an 18year old can do something as drastic as kill another man but can't have a glass of wine.

An 18year old can go to prison, legally use firearms, vote in elections, be treated as a full adult. but can't have a glass of wine in front of the fireplace with his/her partner!!!!

Yup...thats the law. we have lots of them here.
And they are all good?

Now you can make your own mind up about it minoltaman. You said you've travelled the world. Well, look at it with open eyes, and be honest with yourself, and maybe... just maybe you'll see that sometimes other idea's work better.

Yup...I have partied with some real cool peeps in 13 countries plus my own. Hawaii too. And yup...There is no place like home. The good old USA. Although a couple places were real close.

I was questioning ONE law in your country. I wasn't putting your country down. Why are you getting all patriotic on me????

And your statement that by seeing that book a tiny child will want to start drinking, is quite simply the most rediculous thing I have read this week. So, let me get this right. When your children see the hundreds of dead and murdered people on American television every day, do they go out and kill people themselves?????[/b]

Get off it...you sound like a commie now. Please refrain from this foolishness and niavety. Yes tv has an effect on children as well but this discussion has no place in the show and tell threads.
What the hell has what I said got to do with a political system started in Russia in 1917??? My reference was asking does everything a child watch make the child want to emulate? How has that got anything to do with communisim

Oh, and if it has no place in the show & tell threads (and I agree this shouldn't be the place for political discussions) then why did you bring up a political opinion on the photography in the first place?

Take you and your political bullsmack down to the proper forum. I'll give you a lesson in Americana since it seems you need one. My buddy 12 footer may be around to show the way in case I am not there when you arrive.

AMERICA ROCKS and don't you ever forget it.

Later

Your buddy 12 footer?? I have no idea what that means, can you please explain? Is that a threat of some sort?

At what point did it look like I was ripping your country apart? I questioned ONE law, which was relevant considering your, what seems, sudden distaste for anything alcoholic, and one that was entirely relevant to your argument over the photography in question.

I must admit, I used some harsh comparisons about what an 18year old can do, i.e. in war, but not have a drink. I didn’t make that side a political thing, because I never said that he/she was doing anything wrong. Except that killing another person is a very serious thing, and drinking a glass of wine is not. Soldiers in all country’s, including mine, kill people (whether I approve of that or not does, as you say, belong in another thread) but at least killing people is not considered less serious than drinking a red wine with your wife.

I never made it that political that you had to go all patriotic, but it’s interesting that you did. With the exception of a couple of laws I find crazy, I really like your country. I have a few American friends, both here and in the U.S., and I have visited your beautiful country many times. There are also crazy laws in my own country, of which I am also vocal of. So, why get all patriotic? Why throw something that resembles a threat because I question one law in your country. And I only questioned it based on your opinion of the photography.

Oh, and one very important thing. If I was anti-American, as I somehow in some weird way think you suspect me of, why am I defending the work of another American, pstewert?

Anyway. I welcome you to Germany. There will be no 12footer facing you when you come. You can criticize anything you like while you’re here, and find point’s to improve, as there are many.

I will visit America again, because I really do like the country, and there are so many things to photograph. Somehow though, I think now, that some guy 45minutes from Chicago will point a 12 footer (whatever that thing is) at me when I come, but as I have a few American friends to look after me, maybe I’ll survive the holiday.

Anyway, let’s end this discussion, and let pstewert continue her wonderful gallery.

Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:12 pm

12 footer is a fellow American that participates in the political discussions here at pbase. I am glad you are finally finished with your pro beer/pro german rant.

Thank you.

BTw... Ramstien is one of my favorite bands.

Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:15 pm

Look folks, there is no such thing as rational talk with Don. If you APPEAR to oppose his view IN ANY WAY he will take it as a personal attack and come back at you with many ranting, inflammatory posts. He lives on this forum....

Just don't get in his sites....

uh-oh....I guess I just did! :roll:

Yoinks! LOL

(and before I am accused of promoting children drinking….I do not.)

Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:23 pm

So what happened, you turned into an alcoholic and now you want it banned from everyone else including those who drink responsibly?

You need to get a life and go away. I never said any such thing. Oh yeah..you are the responsibility police. You could have prevented the drunks from killing my family members. You are one cold dude.

Wrong again, your opinion was a politically based one. It wasn't based on the artistic value of the work in question, but your personal political perspective of it.

Are you crazy? I said find me one other american publication that features beer and childern. You won't. It ain't appropriate here and it ain't artistic to me. You started discusiing american/german law. You have a bad memory or what?

That wasn't my point, and it is real sad that you had to see it all back to America vrs the world. My point was why an 18year old can do something as drastic as kill another man but can't have a glass of wine.

I told you this sort of discussion does not belong here. Must you continue?

And they are all good?

Nope...but all in all we are the greatest country on earth.

I was questioning ONE law in your country. I wasn't putting your country down. Why are you getting all patriotic on me????

This is not the place to question American law. I told you about 5 times now..take it to the political forum.

What the hell has what I said got to do with a political system started in Russia in 1917??? My reference was asking does everything a child watch make the child want to emulate? How has that got anything to do with communisim

The way you down america makes me think of an idiot or a commie.

Oh, and if it has no place in the show & tell threads (and I agree this shouldn't be the place for political discussions) then why did you bring up a political opinion on the photography in the first place?

You are so full of garbage. Reread my first post hot shot. Nothing polical period.

Please find another forum to post your inappropriate garbage in.

Thank you...du hast?

Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:24 pm

Look folks, there is no such thing as rational talk with Don. If you APPEAR to oppose his view IN ANY WAY he will take it as a personal attack and come back at you with many ranting, inflammatory posts. He lives on this forum....

Darter...you seem to have become a flamer and a troll and you are full of horse dooky. That is the bottom line.