Sorry...I never meant for this to happen!

[minoltaman]

And, Don, regarding your other comments here... Your personal problems with some of my members a few months back has nothing at all to do with this issue. I long ago deleted those discussions. My site is an upbeat positive place and I like keeping it that way.)

This is the garbage that started it. This is the first post that any reference to "personal problems" began. You complained about deleted text. You chose to leave yours.

Don't talk about honesty to me when your main members ran around RP as imposters creating havok. Don't talk to me about honesty when you yourself has emailed me about YOUR OWN incorrect assumptions and mistakes.

Don't talk about honesty when you do not take credit for wrecking Danny's forum.

Do not talk about honesty when your members are casting votes for bunk galleries.

Do not talk to me about honesty when you condoned and participated in a hate thread in your own forum.

Do not talk to me about honesty when you called the owner of retouchpro a crook.

Thank you.

I suppose you think other members are learning a lot fro this. Must you continue? I ask again...clear the thread.


Your galleries took a funny posistion on the board. I do not think it was very honest. Just me. Why do you insist on trying to bash me?

Gee whiz....I think I will let you talk to yourself in this matter. I am getting tired of this.

[jet_liera]

Excuse me for breaking your conversation.
I dont get these.

Don't talk about honesty when you do not take credit for wrecking Danny's forum.

How is it possible for a single person to wreck a forum. I can't imagine how.
Let's say that if i want, there's actually a way to waste Innographx at will.How do you do it ? is it a "hacker" thing or something like that ?

If so, then Phyllis could thrash Pbase too ? how how how ?

Do not talk about honesty when your members are casting votes for bunk galleries.

Hold the phone, I'm a member and i have voted for your galleries and others' too (Phyllis' included) for the sole reason that i believe they deserve it. I don't care about Phyllis or anyone else personally: I like your art, you got my vote.I don't like it and you don't. I don't care if your name is Bush or Arnold.
And if i ever have voted for a "bunk " gallery, that is because it probably appeals to me. We all like something that could be junk to others.

--
Speaking rationally and thinking analitically, I don't know what is going on with the voting schemes here, or why it's so easy to "cheat".

I think you guys have discovered a glitch somewhere in the software that controls that area.
And It'd be better if we report that to Emily or someone else in charge so they could fix it, as they have done in the past, as with the "double voting" issue some time ago.

Regards

[minoltaman]

We already asked Emily last week. It is clearly in one or the other cheater threads. She said very plainly it is a matter of only a few votes being cast currently and there is no problem with the system.

Now as for this.

How is it possible for a single person to wreck a forum. I can't imagine how.
Let's say that if i want, there's actually a way to waste Innographx at will.How do you do it ? is it a "hacker" thing or something like that ?

If so, then Phyllis could thrash Pbase too ? how how how ?

OK...back in the earlier days before the innographx forum there was a very popular set of photoart forums at retouchpro.com led by Danny Raphael. The photoshop action guru you may have heard of from dpreview and retouchpro. Retouchpro is run by Doug Nelson, one of the greatest photoshop experts of our time.

This forum had a very high participation level. Very HIGH. All of the senior members of Phyllis's site used to be members and regular contributers to RetouchPro. Making RetouchPro the hottest photo-art site on the net.

Then the misunderstanding of cost and fundraising came to play at RP. Then bickering and donation banter to cover costs. Then bad assumptions and misunderstandings. At this time phyllis was one of the major players at RP. The threads were full of great stuff from her and her friends. Then the threats to RP came. She made threats to take all of her friends and make a new site. That is exactly what she did. Those members no longer contribute to the pa forum at rp anymore. Most of them left under false pretenses in the first place. We tried to build RP back but some of Phyllis's senior members continued to cause problems as imposters at RP. Massive recruiting pm campaigns were waged.

Sooo.....all of those great senior members at inno used to participate in Danny's pa forums at rp. Now they are gone forever and RP has not recovered yet. It's content has been shredded by Phyllis's and her friends deleted posts rendering many threads useless at best.

Now as far wrecking pbase that is not possible. The threads at RPPA need content and members survive. This forum means almost nothing to pbase. Pbase is a photography database with 15 million photo's. Almost no one cares about the forums here. Here your images do your talking for you. The upload list, 90 day list, all-time list etc. People come to pbase to store photos and direct link them. They do not come here to learn photo-art.

Comparing the mamoth and largest on the net pbase to a small photo-art forum is like comparing a red apple to broken stick. They do not compare.

Believe me....one or a few people can wreck a forum. I have seen a few forums and have seen this happen many times.

Talk don't walk here....pics do.

I am glad you are one of the honest ones who votes for galleries on there own merit. This is what we need more of here. I did not mean to say everyone there is dishonest. As I said in my earlier posts...only some.

If you need more clarification on how a forum can be destroyed I will be glad to elaborate.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers

PS BTW...I don't see too many bunk galleries high up on the 90 day or all-time lists. Do you?

[framewerkz]

*settles down in the front row of the peanut gallery to watch the fur fly*

Popcorn anyone?

[minoltaman]

Dang....and I was trying to get some work done. BTW...for those who don't know already http://www.retouchpro.com is hands down the most comprehensive retouching and restoration site on the net. Many authors of great photoshop books contribute there as well as retouching and restoration business owners. Best I have ever seen. More tricks than you could ever hold in one trick bag. The photo-art side was fast growing and booming beyond all belief until all of this junk happened. Just a little background on RP for the pgallery.

[jet_liera]

Thanks Don for your fast response and the detailed explanation.
Now i get it.

Keep posting graffitti pictures, i like those.

Regards

[minoltaman]

Thanks for the complement on the graffiti pictures. I am glad to hear that as I have decided to post a gallery of higher rez larger sized graffiti pics here at pbase soon. I also intend to get a thousand more good shots next year. This year I spent 4 days on graffiti. Next year I will spend many more days than 4. It is one of my favorite things to shoot. Have a good one.

Cheers

[pstewart]

Please stop making things up so this discussion can get back to what the topic is. You seemed to have tried to turn it into a bash Don thread.

Actually, if you would read each of my posts you would see no evidence at all of my “bashing” you. All I did was to state some facts, namely that you were tossed off more than one photo site due to the nature of your posts. I also asked you to stop making this thread into a rehash of your personal problems with me and the folks on my site. The only person doing any “bashing” here seems to be you from what I read in these posts...at least the ones you haven’t edited and re-edited to make it look as though I was the one who brought up old personal gripes and not you.

Don't talk to me about honesty when you yourself has emailed me about YOUR OWN incorrect assumptions and mistakes.

You have just given an example of my honesty, not any DIS-honesty. Admitting one made a mistake is an honest thing to do, and mistakes themselves are not dishonest...they are just mistakes.

Don't talk about honesty when you do not take credit for wrecking Danny's forum.

This makes no sense. Do you think I should “take credit” for the fact that your constant stream of nasty posts and PM’S drove people away from RTP because they no longer enjoyed a place where one temperamental member posted more than half the pictures in every thread and angrily challenged anyone who found flaws in their critiques? Why did so many of RTP’s members switch to my site? Because they wanted to get away from you, Don. Which is why I could not let you be an Inno member. I tried to give you a second chance and a fresh start. It was just too late, for too much damage had been done...folks don’t forget insults that easily.

Do not talk about honesty when your members are casting votes for bunk galleries.

My members told me today they really DO like most of my galleries, so, as I already explained in a previous post (which you, again, evidently failed to read well) they did not consider their votes to be “bogus,” nor were the galleries “bunk” in their view. The only three galleries I don’t think deserve recognition are the ones I mentioned earlier. But I do think that the majority of those new ones added really are good enough to deserve attention, such as Furry Friends and Rural Scenes for example. Evidently many of my members agreed. You are free to disagree. But your disagreement doesn’t make them “bunk.”

Do not talk to me about honesty when you called the owner of retouchpro a crook.

This again makes no sense. Saying that I came to see your point, which was that Doug probably did NOT need all that money to run the site, was my way of agreeing you had a good point after all and that I was mistaken when I disagreed with you about the donation issue. I never called anyone a crook. Even IF I had (which I didn’t), wondering aloud about the honesty of someone else says nothing about my own honesty.

Do not talk to me about honesty when you condoned and participated in a hate thread in your own forum.

Again, this has nothing to do with honesty. However, that thread was very short-lived... I deleted it after a few days. But folks were upset, and they wanted to let off steam. That’s human nature and good therapy. No one has mentioned any of that for many months now. We have all moved on to try to make our site a positive productive one.

Don't talk about honesty when you do not take credit for wrecking Danny's forum.

[...]OK...back in the earlier days before the innographx forum there was a very popular set of photoart forums at retouchpro.com led by Danny Raphael. The photoshop action guru you may have heard of from dpreview and retouchpro. Retouchpro is run by Doug Nelson, one of the greatest photoshop experts of our time.

Fact 1: I ran the photo art forum for Danny at his request. It was a busy happy forum until Fishboy came along, at which point it started to go downhill from his overabundance of posts and new threads. After some members complained to moderators about him, Fishboy “left” only to return surreptiously as “Photomauler.” He later admitted he was the same person and began signing his name as “Don.”

Fact 2: Danny tried to get Doug to ban you from the site months earlier than he (eventually) did because Danny realized his participating members were really upset with your behavior, but Doug is all for free speech and wouldn’t do it...not at that point anyway. Doug preferred to handle it by regularly deleting your nasty posts. But members didn’t forget your harsh words just because your posts were gone.

Fact 3: The reason you and I had a disagreement at RTP in the first place was that I was a heavy financial contributor to Doug’s site and you were trying to convince me that some of us were giving RTP too much, since sites don’t cost THAT much to run. It turned out, I found out later with my own site, that you were correct. I admitted to you I made a mistake in doubting you.

Fact 4: Danny completely understood when I formed my own site and offered his support and any help he could give. I didn’t take it, but I thanked him for the thought. Danny is a great guy, and he was not at fault in any of those unfortunate events.

Fact 5: I never “stole” any members from RTP. They came willingly and are a great group of talented fun people! I don’t consider it “my” site as much as “our” site. We started as a small ragtag group of RTP “refugees” but have grown considerably since that time. Most of our members now have never heard of how/why Inno was started, and few know that the site began because of you, Don...because you annoyed folks so much at RTP that our only choice was to go elsewhere. For that I owe you a debt of gratitude, because I love the site and its wonderful group of caring, talented, HONEST, people!

Phyllis

[minoltaman]

Your facts are a bunch of bs.
Your conclusions are bs.
Your recollection is bs.
Your timeline is bs.
Your opinion is bs.
Your list of facts is a complete joke.

The truth is you were not getting the attention you felt you deserved. You also were proud to brag up you and your friends fifty dollar donations making the rest of the contributers feel like peons. Driving new traffic down to almost nothing. Then you started this bash and trash campaign on the boards and with pms. Then you got all confused and made threats to Danny. Then you got pissed off and made your own site and asked all of the members to come participate. Then you and your peeps made Doug remove all of the stuff from RP. Then you and Chuck were banned. Then you still gave them trouble. The your senior members pretended the were members of the opposite sex and then relogged into RP and then ran around lying at RP as imposters and caused more trouble for all of us all over again. Then immeadeately left RP after I did. They only came back to make more trouble.

I actually inspired a completely new forum at RP. The critiques forum. It is actually pretty popular these days. Yup....one of my complaints actually got incorporated.

Now RPPA is dead. I do not reply to liars and this will probably be my final post to you here.

So here is what I say to you.



I do not cause trouble. Why do you keep saying that? I can not believe you are still kidding yourself here.

Have fun boosting your galleries up the list Phyllis. I hope it gratifies you much. I will again refrain from you and your posts bigtime. Once again instead of addressing countless points you have overlooked them and started spewing babble.

Make up some more bs to try to make yourself look good. I am now done. You started this with bunk galleries on the board and you have now ended it with bunk posts on the board. I'll let it stand at that.

Later Much

[minoltaman]

HONEST

JOKE


If all of your bunk junk were true a person would be banned from moderated forum a hundred times over. Only the absurd will buy that load of crap. People know my posting patterns. It is nothing like you say. You seem to be the nasty one.

Sorry....this text will be my last. Happy slamming and spamming Phyllis.

[pstewart]

Then you got all confused and made threats to Danny

That's just plain silly...I never threatened anyone, certainly not Danny. He was, is, and will continue to be a good friend whom I respect and admire.

Your denials of the facts aside, anyone who reads all the posts inthis whole thread can clearly see who is rational and who is ranting. As usual, you are your own best basher, Don.

Furthermore, you not only have posted a bunch of denials, false accusations, and non-truths, but you have completely missed the point of this whole thread. Please do not think everything is about you, Don. This thread was an explanation of something unfortunate that happened. Make your own threads if you wish to talk about your personal history and complaints.

Thanks for saying you will finally stop these nonsense posts. Now go have a look at some galleries, enjoy the beauty that is here, and think some positive thoughts! You'll feel a lot better!

[minoltaman]

[jet_liera]

Don & Phyllis,
I'm confused as each one has his/her own view of what happened.
I certainly don't believe that Don's (supposedly) extreme behavior can make members fleet from a site, as crazy or lunatic he would ever be.
I don't believe either, Phyllis could entice and hypnotize sane adults into leaving a site.

I am a member of quite a number of sites and i post at each once in a while, they see me go back and forth and question me about what made abandon the site for so long. My answer is i go to and stay at where and when i feel comfortable, i'm a lunatic myself and an errand too.

Actually most of the artists tend to be daydreamers, temperamental and quite a big case Lunatics, so we have to recognize that we have all that in some quantities, as that's the trademark of the artist.

So, let's get some conclusions here.
1.- Neither Don or Phyllis could have the power to thrash a site (unless, as i asked Don, someone is a hacker)
2.- Both of you guys are very talented, each in his/her own way. There's no way of comparison for that.
3.- Both have had the honour to be in the most acclaimed galleries.
- Well, you both deserve it. I wish i had that distinction for just a few hours.
4.- You both hate each other's guts, and it's OK if you keep it to yourselves, because it just doesn't look right in fine artists as yourselves. We have a different opinion of you, and not the one that reflects this thread.

I, as many Pbase members admire your work and strive for being half as good as you, so please don't throw overboard that admiration and respect we feel for you.

With all respect and the best of intentions. these are the humble thoughts of a loyal fan.

Regards

[minoltaman]

Jorge...I think you somewhat underestimate the power people have on small forum communities. That's fine, that is your opinion. We, however, were active players in the unravelling of a forum. We saw it from the inside out. Even though we see it from two different perspectives this forum did disolve in a hurry. No kidding. It is not a float here float there thing. It is a here today gone tomorrow thing. You can look at the members list from both forums and user participation and see what I mean. Not to mention the massive number of uploads that were removed from the RP threads at the inno peoples ordering. Rendering tons of threads useless.

Anyway....I asked Phyllis to delete the personal references long ago (third post from the bottom on page one)and she decided not to. She made some more references and I made some more references and the rest is history.

Most of the points you just made are very valid. I certainly do not plan to participate in many more threads like this. I tried to tell her this thread was benefitting no one long ago. She seems to think otherwise.

Once again Jorge, I hear ya. This will be the last kooky thread I participate in.

Happy shooting and thanks for the kind words.

[libragrrrl67]

Phewww...is it over yet?