Sorry...I never meant for this to happen!

[pstewart]

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EDIT: I have since removed that large image which was a composite of screenshots of a string of 11 of my galleries that showed up in the 7 day popular list, and the comments that went along with it got deleted with the image of course, so I will put the info right here so you'll know what this thread is about.

I run a photo art and retouching site called Innographx and I had told my members one day that new members had signed up since my galleries (six of them, NOT in a row, no cheating indicated here) had made the pop list. The extra exposure was bringing folks to my site since I had our Inno url in my galleries. I suggested to my members that they place a vote for my galleries "if you truly like it...NO cheating!" Those are the exact words I used. I also asked members to place the Innographx link in their pbase galleries where they presented photo art that was done from one of Inno's challenges.

It was all just common sense to help our free and fun site get some publicity, and my statement about votes was just part of the general recruitment campaign. I had no idea that just a few votes could have such an immediate effect and toss 11 of my galleries into the list overnight! At the time I think we only had about 4 or 5 active members who were also members at pbase...a few more active members may have joined Inno since, but they were not members during this mix up, and most of the new pbase members are just names on the list and are not active at all, so I can't assume they even read my post.)

That's all there was to it. It certainly was never my intention to cheat, as I will attempt to explain further in the rest of the post. END EDIT
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I wasn't going to say anything here, but I think I have to. It must look really strange to anyone going through the popular galleries list today, if it still looks the way it does on the screenshot I posted on this link, at least.

I was careful to say "only if you really like them...no cheating!" But folks want to help and I guess they can get carried away. I am sorry this happened. I do think my galleries are good, and you folks obviously also thought that 5 or 6 were good enough to be "popular" for some time now, but today...well...this is ridiculous, and not at all what I had in mind.

I hope you will forgive the mess I caused here, not intentionally I assure you! My innographx site really is full of friendly honest decent folks. Just a bit too enthusiastic perhaps!

Phyllis

[minoltaman]

I was careful to say "only if you really like them...no cheating!" But folks want to help and I guess they can get carried away.

Hmmmm....I think I may have seen something like this happen before with you foks...eh??? carried away I mean. You sure got a bandwagon people jump on Phyllis.

It must look really strange to anyone going through the popular galleries list today, if it still looks the way it does on the screenshot I posted on this link, at least.

Yep...Reminds me of the other unnamed "cheaters" lately.

I hope you will forgive the mess I caused here, not intentionally I assure you! My innographx site really is full of friendly honest decent folks. Just a bit too enthusiastic perhaps!

If you say so.

I was compelled to comment since you made this post. You will NOT see my galleries climb up the boards all in a row. I hate cheaters!

I reccomend sending your forum people to stop by some of the other great sites here at pbase and start voting honestly. Maybe you better not.....they may go crazy and break their voting fingers.

No bigggie but I had to add my 2 cents on the "cheating".

[minoltaman]

Yesss....upon further review this vote cheating stuff is starting to suck. I looked at all of those galleries your "honest" people voted for. A few of those galleries should have never made the list. Did you say honest??? Hmmm....

PS. No disrespect intended to you and your fine and "honest" innographx people. It would be nice to look at the popular galleries again without a bunch of propped of galleries cluttering it up the 7day list. This is becoming a weekly thing with someone around here I guess. No biggie...life goes on.

Good luck with your dilemma.

[peterb]

I'm sure you are very sweet but you were fishing for votes after all. Be careful what you wish for...you might just get it. No biggie...this too shall pass.

[minoltaman]

Fishing is quite a complicated sport I guess. I fish for votes on almost every gallery and I have NEVER had this "cheating" effect happen to my galleries. Uhhhh...what gives? Maybe cheaters do not stop by my galleries or I am using a different bait or something.

Cheers

[peterb]

Uh oh minoltaman...you've left yourself wide open.
Maybe even the cheaters don't like your stuff?
Maybe your not as sweet as pstewart?
I think you might try a different bait.

[minoltaman]

Uh oh minoltaman...you've left yourself wide open.
Maybe even the cheaters don't like your stuff?
Maybe your not as sweet as pstewart?
I think you might try a different bait.

Uhhh.............I dunno peterb. Check the 90 day and the all-time lists. You will see that I use a good old fashioned honest bait to get my votes. I prefer fishing for votes in those waters. That's where the really big fish like to swim.

Would you like to clarify yourself please?

Thanks

[minoltaman]

Here is some examples of my bait peterb. All MY photos. Some straight and some altered by me in ps.

http://www.pbase.com/minoltaman/street_ ... street_art

http://www.pbase.com/minoltaman/only_green

http://www.pbase.com/minoltaman/great_cats

http://www.pbase.com/minoltaman/paintin ... ns_colours

http://www.pbase.com/minoltaman/dripping_paint

Currently this honest bait is holding down 4 galleries in the top 21 over the last 90 days and number 31 as well on that list.

Also my bait has worked place 4 of my galleries in the top 77 all-time.

I think the 90 day and all-time lists are usually much better in quality than the 7 day lists. I think most people here will agree. I had dozens of galleries float around the lists for a while but the 90 day and all-time lists are the real test of time.

I have only been here since the spring and did not start uploading seriously until mid-summer. All 4000 of the shots I have uploaded here were all captured within a 10 month time frame with only one camera.(Except for RetouchPro Galleries) I am rather proud of the response I have been getting from many of my galleries here. I also would like to thank all of the people who have viewed and or voted for these and my other galleries during this time!

Sooo....peterb, exactly what bait should I be switching too? Do you have a special lure you use that you want me to try?

2 more cents on voting and fishing for votes and cheating and sorry for the shameles self-promotion in the middle of this thread.

Cheers

BTW....Some of Phyllis's PS stuff is really sweet. Nobody here was really discussing that though.

[peterb]

"Sooo....peterb, exactly what bait should I be switching too? Do you have a special lure you use that you want me to try?"

I was just busting your chops. Don't go and get all serious on me now!

You've posted some lovely images and I'm glad for the recognition you've gotten.

[minoltaman]

I figured as much......I never get the jokes. I was gonna make a post and ask but went for the shameless self-promotion instead.

Cheers

[pstewart]

I fish for votes on almost every gallery and I have NEVER had this "cheating" effect happen to my galleries. Uhhhh...what gives? Maybe cheaters do not stop by my galleries or I am using a different bait or something.

Don, the only reason I caught so many "fish" is that I happen to run a photo art site where 1) many folks are photographers and have pbase accounts also and 2) members want to see my galleries get viewers, since my image captions direct folks to the original pics at Innographx and interest them in learning photo art and retouching themselves. You don't have that questionable "luxury" where you have a bunch of like-minded people anxious to help you and the site you run for their pleasure.

Actually, there is nothing wrong with what I did, technically. I see that your galleries ask folks to "please vote" or "don't forget to vote" as do a lot of other galleries here. I never mention voting in any of my gallery blurbs. The only time I asked folks to vote "IF they really liked the galleries" was on my site.

How can this skewed result happen here anyway? I think it's becoming clearer to me now. ***NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE VOTE, SO EACH VOTE IS OVERWEIGHTED ***

I never thought that a couple of dozen or so votes from my loyal Inno members could put a gallery in most popular. Never in a million years! I thought it would take 100's, since there are so many people here and so many "hits" recorded on my galleries (thousands), the ones that "legitmately" made it into the Pop Galleries on their own merits, that is. There were six there for quite some time now that I felt were worthy, and earlier my two best photo art sites, People and Children, were there too. I feel those deserved the popular rating, since they were my best work.

What is upsetting to me is that a small group of voters CAN sway the results so much! Actually, anyone with a club or a group of school friends etc. could end up in the same situation with well-meaning "help" from those groups. This is not what I consider "cheating" since that wasn't my intent. Remember, I DID tell them "only if you really like something...no cheating!"

Also, advertising my innographx site here is not a wrong thing to do, since my site is free and gives free challenges and free tutorials. It works BOTH WAYS too...my site helps Pbase. Several weeks ago when I got a Pbase account for myself, I suggested to my members who didn't already have a pbase account that they buy one, since it's a good storage site at a very reasonable cost. Many of them did just that, so Pbase got extra PAYING members from my site. At that time I was just posting/storing pics here, and frankly I hadn't explored the site and didn't even know there WAS a "popular galleries" section. Pbase benefitted from Innographx advertising then just as much as Inno benefitted from my galleries being seen here.

So, please don't say "like the OTHER cheaters." I had no intention to cheat...just explaining to my members that being in Pop Galleries was getting us new members. I was surprised and delighted, and was sharing the good news--20 new members in just one week!

No, I don't think tiny galleries like my "Critters" or "Birds and Bees" or "Transportation" belong in the most popular...too few images for one thing, though they will grow and may one day be worthy. So I can't feel proud of those. ***I do, however, feel proud of all the galleries that found their way into the Popular list on their own merits without "a little help from my friends." And I thank all the Pbase members who voted for them just because they really liked what they saw.***

You know, one last word on voting. I vote all the time. For images, for galleries...every day I look around and find some that I just love. I use the random photo feature to find exciting new galleries. It's great to see all the talent here, and I am happy to vote to encourage it. I just assumed that thousands of others were voting this much too. Guess not. Why not? Why can 20 or so votes have such a huge effect on a site with such a huge membership?

(And, Don, regarding your other comments here... Your personal problems with some of my members a few months back has nothing at all to do with this issue. I long ago deleted those discussions. My site is an upbeat positive place and I like keeping it that way.)

[darter02]

Awwww...come on! Don't make up just yet! I was hoping to see a full fledged flame war break out like I used to see on DP Challenge...

(((Just teasing of course!)))

[minoltaman]

So, please don't say "like the OTHER cheaters

Uhhhh....I call 'em like I see 'em. I did'nt say you cheated. I said what I said. Please keep it in context.

(And, Don, regarding your other comments here... Your personal problems with some of my members a few months back has nothing at all to do with this issue. I long ago deleted those discussions. My site is an upbeat positive place and I like keeping it that way.)

Uhhh....what other comments? You might want to reread my posts. You and some of your members made that thread in YOUR forum. What are you talking about? Besides I do not have a personal problem with anyone that is not a dirty rotten liar and or a cheat. If you are a liar I will not have anything to do with you.

Besides... IMHO most all of your people are old retouchpro photo-art people. Danny is the one that made that group. You only "stole" them away from RP. Your site is what it is because of Danny Raphael and his hard work at RetouchPro I think.

You might want to remove your end text and I will do the same as I don't think this is the place for this discussion. But if you insist I will carry on.

[minoltaman]

BTW Phyllis.............you are certainly not the only forum operator to have accounts here at pbase. I know tons of them myself. With forums and boards considerable larger than yours. You are, however, the only one that I have seen get the old "galleries in a row treatment". there may have been others but I missed them. Hmmmm. Must be that "like minded" thing. I think I prefer the open mindedness of most pbase users.

I also did not need all of the gorilla marketing speaks about cross-promotion/pollination either. You could have saved that one for someone else. Thanks

PS I think "asking for the vote if you enjoyed a gallery text" on the gallery page is honest since VOTE FOR THIS GALLERY is already on the page to begin with. Besides, you see any of "those" galleries climb the list all in a row...not hardly. Voting is one thing. Kissing butt is another. I dislike kiss butt votes and voters big time. I like great images and outstanding galleries myself. That's what I vote for.

Cheers

[e_pixa]

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ....