Nudity/Pornography

[peterb]

"Isn't it revealing that you consider me rude (your word) to engage in sensible debate on this forum but it is not rude for other people to upload pictures of genitalia"

Bill




PAD or popular images/galleries or whatever, PBase's philosophy applies to all areas of the site.

I certainly don't consider you rude for debating the issue (thanks for putting words into my mouth).
What I consider rude is joining PBase and then suggesting that the governing philosophy be changed
to accomodate a sensibility that only a minority take comfort in.

You may find my comment 'revealing' but your response is equally so.

[madlights]

I'm certainly against censorship...as the old question goes "who censors the censors?" But as I view it, maybe some kind of filtering or classification would be OK. I also think that as a previous poster said "with freedom comes responsibility" Pbase is viewed by all sorts of people...kids, perverts, religious zealots, you name it. How many photographers or models, literally would take off their clothes in a room full of strangers and display themselves in the ways some of the photographs I've seen are? Anonymity as a refuge? Yet I've also seen very tasteful and effective nude photography on PBase. So maybe some kind of filters, at least to inform would be appropriate (and many photographers do warn of nudity). As has been said in other threads...a problem could occur if it were limited to certain sections, then those sections could easily become very popular with certain segments of internet traffic. Some form of filter (perhaps set by the photographers themselves, voluntarily or otherwise, to certain galleries? ) that could be applied and set by schools, businesses etc, on individual galleries... yet site wide, without creating separate areas might work. Then those who are offended by such things could block them, and those who aren't could look...allowing for freedom on both sides of this issue?

[hmetal]

Yeah... I'm so over seeing the naked women, particularly when they're slimmer and better lookin then me. I just want to know where the nude photos are of all the men! You rarely see naked men popping up on this site. Is this because mens bodies are not photogenic? NATURALLY I would only be looking at a nude photo of a good looking muscle clad and hopefully tatooed dark haired male for artistic reasons, that is, to check out just where the light and shadows fall. I would not complain so much then.

Awesome! When I find this specimen, I will surely photograph him. I'll even get him to placard a "for antheaz" sign.

Seriously though, you raise a good point. I don't have the answer. I would shoot a male nude and do it well. I guess maybe not a lot of male photographers are comfortable with their own sexuality enough to shoot nude males?

I won't even try and guess as to why ladies don't photograph more nude males. I know a lot of women who are "pervy" but it seems that most women photographers shooting nudes also shoot women. It's odd.. It helps that the female figure is more beautiful (IMO).

The funny thing is, in the animal kingdom, males typically have the brighter plumage and the prettier song yet with respect to humanity, women are typically the prettier of the two sexes. Women definitely have better curves!

[hmetal]

Is anyone as tired and disappointed as I am of viewing PAD and seeing all the nudity/pornography on Pbase? You don't need to look elsewhere on the Internet, Pbase has it all! There seems to be more and more of it lately too--just take a photo of your nude girlfriend, wife, etc and post it on Pbase! It's offensive, I want to see beautiful photography, not a bunch of women's private parts which is just what most of the photos are, no artistic talent there! Pbase should have a separate/private gallery area for this kind of stuff for the people who want to take a peek.

Excuse me? I am a professional who shoots nudity and artistic nude photography. I am tired and disappointed of seeing PAD and NOT seeing my photos because viewers like you decide you are the judge and moderator of good taste. There seems to be more and more of it lately too.

So why not, instead of complaining about what WE post on PBase, why not ask PBase to implement the content filtering system so that if you choose too see "artistic" rabbits, puppies, cats, squirrels, then you can see those by enabling "safe" content only. Those that want to see those "offensive" and "talentless" photos can then make their own choice and not have their experience modified by your personal likes or dislikes. Don't get me wrong, I shoot photos of everything, including puppies, people, portraits, kids, architecture and anything else that inspires me.

Personally, I find it offensive that you just lump all nude photos offensive and talentless. Sure, it takes creativity and knowledge to do it properly and there's a lot of BAD photography on PBase in ALL genres represented here. Why should you be the one to decide what style of photography is displayed here?

Additionally, my photos have served many purposes through the years that I have been on PBase. They have stimulated conversation regarding adult content, they have inspired other to learn, mimic and create their own images. People even come to me for help with lightning and how I lit a particular model, pose or concept. Why should PBase listen to you and rob the rest of the community of such a dynamic set of relatioships? If my work had not been present here, those people would not have experienced this and would not have been inspired.

PBASE: Help this person our and help us photographers out. Maybe then we won't have to continually defend ourselves against puritanical complaints and can get on to dealing with those who actually APPRECIATE it!

Let EACH OF US CHOOSE our own PBase experience. Implement the content filtering system!!

[hmetal]

I'm certainly against censorship...as the old question goes "who censors the censors?" But as I view it, maybe some kind of filtering or classification would be OK. I also think that as a previous poster said "with freedom comes responsibility" Pbase is viewed by all sorts of people...kids, perverts, religious zealots, you name it. How many photographers or models, literally would take off their clothes in a room full of strangers and display themselves in the ways some of the photographs I've seen are? Anonymity as a refuge? Yet I've also seen very tasteful and effective nude photography on PBase. So maybe some kind of filters, at least to inform would be appropriate (and many photographers do warn of nudity). As has been said in other threads...a problem could occur if it were limited to certain sections, then those sections could easily become very popular with certain segments of internet traffic. Some form of filter (perhaps set by the photographers themselves, voluntarily or otherwise, to certain galleries? ) that could be applied and set by schools, businesses etc, on individual galleries... yet site wide, without creating separate areas might work. Then those who are offended by such things could block them, and those who aren't could look...allowing for freedom on both sides of this issue?

Well, that's very simple (I am knowledgeable about this as I am a programmer and web developer myself). Let's look at how Flickr does it..

Flickr uploads have 3 upload states: safe, moderate, restricted. When you upload a photo, you choose the rating you wish to give it. e.g. I rate ALL my nude images with "restricted" and other stuff safe.

Now a user viewing flickr comes along and browses. if that user has his viewing preferences" set to "safe" then he or she will see only the photos that their uploader has marked "safe." If you want to see restricted content, you simply change your viewing preferences to "moderate" or "restricted" in order to see those photos. This is the case with ALL of Flickr. It is site-wide.

Now, I know people are saying, "that leaves a lot of room for uploaders who don't care if their content offends."

Flickr has covered this by applying the SAME 3 filter states to accounts. In other words, they periodically review public areas and if anything shows up there that is "restricted" they will set your account to "moderate" state (which, in reality means the uploader is not a very good self-moderator). When this happens, your photos are not seen in public areas or indexes for browsers who are browsing Flickr with "safe" turned on, even if a suspect photo on that accounr is marked "safe." This is also true if someone reports one of your photos as inappropriate.

If you have a good history of moderating your own content, Flickr will mark your account "safe." My account on Flickr has been reviewed and since I am a good self-moderator, my account is marked "safe."

It is an excellent system and one of the best implementations I've seen to date, for a content filtering system. If PBase implemented this, they would benefit greatly from such a system and end most of the drama surrounding this topic in one deft motion.

[madlights]

Yep I agree Ray...that would solve a lot of this.

[robertash]

Smugmug has an even better approach. They just don't allow that type of material in the first place. Their standard is very reasonable -- don't post anything regarding nudes beyond that which would be ordinarily seen by minors in a museum. Trying to persuade people who insist on producing and/or consuming such material to change is a waste of time if some kind of action is not taken as well. And even then it's often not change.

Having reasonable standards of decency is not censorship in any negative sense.

Jennie,

Thanks for posting this. Emailing ----> ABUSE@PBASE.COM is a pretty good way to voice your concerns and to flag photos or galleries that clearly cross the line. And let them know they should put in place a policy against such material. The vast majority of people here do not produce or consume that type of material yet all are being penalized by porn filters disallowing viewing of the 99% of good material because of the 1% of bad material.

And please don't let anyone discourage you with comparing pornography to pictures of people's kids or pets. Such a statement is not even reasonable to make, and the people who make such statements almost invariably know that when they say such things.

Some kind of classification scheme would be a distant 2nd choice for addressing this problem but would be much better than nothing.

[kevindedpath]

Yeah... I'm so over seeing the naked women, particularly when they're slimmer and better lookin then me. I just want to know where the nude photos are of all the men! You rarely see naked men popping up on this site. Is this because mens bodies are not photogenic? NATURALLY I would only be looking at a nude photo of a good looking muscle clad and hopefully tatooed dark haired male for artistic reasons, that is, to check out just where the light and shadows fall. I would not complain so much then.

There's plenty of all types of nudity on pbase admittedly there's far more female shots than male... one of the problems of having this type of art hidden is it becomes harder to find than the kittens.... but just for you Antheaz I surfed out some guys for you

http://www.pbase.com/mascular/a_mens_world

he has awesome female nude galleries too!!!

[gpmerfeld]

Yeah... I'm so over seeing the naked women, particularly when they're slimmer and better lookin then me. I just want to know where the nude photos are of all the men! You rarely see naked men popping up on this site. Is this because mens bodies are not photogenic? NATURALLY I would only be looking at a nude photo of a good looking muscle clad and hopefully tatooed dark haired male for artistic reasons, that is, to check out just where the light and shadows fall. I would not complain so much then.

Antheaz: Here is a gallery just for you... Check out the light and shadows... :~) Others, please don't give me flack, as it is properly labeled as having adult content!

http://www.pbase.com/gpmerfeld/freedom_male_nude_photography

[455rocket]

.....Smugmug has an even better approach. They just don't allow that type of material in the first place.

That's the main reason I've ruled Smugmug out as a pbase alternative and am considering sites like http://photo.net/ completely discounting a major photographic genre makes them a very incomplete photography site in my opinion.

.....The vast majority of people here do not produce or consume that type of material ........

I really doubt you are correct on this issue, when research indicates the complete opposite
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/relationship ... -find.html
do you have a reference to substantiate your claim?

.....And please don't let anyone discourage you with comparing pornography to pictures of people's kids or pets. Such a statement is not even reasonable to make, and the people who make such statements almost invariably know that when they say such things.........

Actually I think there is a strong comparison as much of the photography of peoples kids & pets, like much of nude & pornographic photography, is very unoriginal, lacks creativity and is poorly photographed and is only of interest to that particular photographer and possibly his subject(s).

.....Some kind of classification scheme would be a distant 2nd choice for addressing this problem but would be much better than nothing.

[/quote]

I would certainly like to see a classification scheme introduced, but this would be my 1st choice, such a change might even make me renew my expired pbase subscription.

[antheaz]

Yeah... I'm so over seeing the naked women, particularly when they're slimmer and better lookin then me. I just want to know where the nude photos are of all the men! You rarely see naked men popping up on this site. Is this because mens bodies are not photogenic? NATURALLY I would only be looking at a nude photo of a good looking muscle clad and hopefully tatooed dark haired male for artistic reasons, that is, to check out just where the light and shadows fall. I would not complain so much then.

Awesome! When I find this specimen, I will surely photograph him. I'll even get him to placard a "for antheaz" sign.

Seriously though, you raise a good point. I don't have the answer. I would shoot a male nude and do it well. I guess maybe not a lot of male photographers are comfortable with their own sexuality enough to shoot nude males?

I won't even try and guess as to why ladies don't photograph more nude males. I know a lot of women who are "pervy" but it seems that most women photographers shooting nudes also shoot women. It's odd.. It helps that the female figure is more beautiful (IMO).

The funny thing is, in the animal kingdom, males typically have the brighter plumage and the prettier song yet with respect to humanity, women are typically the prettier of the two sexes. Women definitely have better curves!

I think a good looking man is much better looking than a good looking female. There is nothing quite like the chiseled bronzed muscle clad dark mysterious form of Mr Perfect and I find that when I see him I have to pick my jaw up off the floor to avoid tripping over it and looking like an idiot. Keep me posted if you find him and definitely be sure to add the placard if you photograph him! Anthea

[antheaz]

Yeah... I'm so over seeing the naked women, particularly when they're slimmer and better lookin then me. I just want to know where the nude photos are of all the men! You rarely see naked men popping up on this site. Is this because mens bodies are not photogenic? NATURALLY I would only be looking at a nude photo of a good looking muscle clad and hopefully tatooed dark haired male for artistic reasons, that is, to check out just where the light and shadows fall. I would not complain so much then.

Antheaz: Here is a gallery just for you... Check out the light and shadows... :~) Others, please don't give me flack, as it is properly labeled as having adult content!

http://www.pbase.com/gpmerfeld/freedom_male_nude_photography

You certainly labelled it correctly, quite an eye opener and some good light and shade!

[hmetal]

I think a good looking man is much better looking than a good looking female. There is nothing quite like the chiseled bronzed muscle clad dark mysterious form of Mr Perfect and I find that when I see him I have to pick my jaw up off the floor to avoid tripping over it and looking like an idiot. Keep me posted if you find him and definitely be sure to add the placard if you photograph him! Anthea

There we are. A sensible woman who knows what she wants. Unfortunately for me, besides being married, I am skinny and very white. LOL.

I'll have to settle for being the photographer.

I'll keep you posted antheaz.

[snappybob]

Admittedly, I haven't been on Pbase very long but I have browsed around quit a bit and have checked out PAD and I have yet to see any nudity. When I clicked on this thread I fully expected it to be a listing of how nudity was prohibited. When I started reading about nudity and porn on PAD I went back to look for it and still have not found any. Am I looking at some other Photo A Day page? Although I have nothing against nudity or legal porn I really would rather not have it out in the open here. It's kind of like leaving your hard core porn mags laying about on the coffee table for everyone to see. I would like to be able to invite anyone to visit my galleries and subsequently this site without having porn blatantly displayed. Although as I stated before I have yet to stumble onto any. I'll keep looking though.

[sbbish]

I'll keep looking though.

That's the spirit! Never give up, never surrender!